Current Affairs Free Speech

[dholliday]

You complain about people taking views from Twitter and then wish for them to engage with anonymous posts from a notoriously ill-informed and bigoted comments section. Why should I do that?
My view, however, is not formed as the opposite of the Mail comment section, but it shouldn't be surprising that my view is different from the cesspit of nonsense.

Why should you do that? Because it might help you understand things better? Things like how the experiences described in the article may eventually lead to things like Brexit, the Tories winning etc.

That is, if you wish to understand such things. I don't think you do, considering the words you use (bolded for reference).

I use those comments in a different context than you (and others) use Twitter posts. Yous use Twitter posts merely as a back-up to your own views. I use specifically highest-rated comments from the online-sphere to demonstrate there are many people who hold very different opinions to the majority on here, and we might do well to consider why they hold such views.

 

[dead_soft]

Why should you do that? Because it might help you understand things better? Things like how the experiences described in the article may eventually lead to things like Brexit, the Tories winning etc.

That is, if you wish to understand such things. I don't think you do, considering the words you use (bolded for reference).

I use those comments in a different context than you (and others) use Twitter posts. Yous use Twitter posts merely as a back-up to your own views. I use specifically highest-rated comments from the online-sphere to demonstrate there are many people who hold very different opinions to the majority on here, and we might do well to consider why they hold such views.

Ah, you use comments in a very clever way and those you disagree with use it to back-up their own views. Noted.

I won't help understand things better, the comments are ill-informed and fast to judgement. I encounter many people who have different opinions to me in my social circle and when door knocking or campaigning and I am from a working class area that encompasses people with a lot of different views. I am not going to have to use the Daily Mail's comments section to help me understand more about people in this country.

You have, bizarrely, taken the Daily Mail article/Ed Husain's book as some form of gospel - we do not have no-go areas, it is riddled with ridiculous and easily picked apart ideas and has limited attempt at journalistic rigour. That you seem to think it is some form of attempt at not engaging with the material to question the way it is reported is ridiculous.

 

[dholliday]

You have, bizarrely, taken the Daily Mail article/Ed Husain's book as some form of gospel - we do not have no-go areas, it is riddled with ridiculous and easily picked apart ideas and has limited attempt at journalistic rigour. That you seem to think it is some form of attempt at not engaging with the material to question the way it is reported is ridiculous.

Where did i do that? Quote the bit where i claim those things are gospel. I did say we should consider what they're saying, as they represent a majority-view of the country.

You're not considering anything, you're blankly dismissing the experiences of others.

Bizarrely, you seem to believe making a blanket statement like: we do not have no-go areas to be gospel.

Why should i trust your single statement over tens-of-thousands of other (virtual) statements? You're not making a convincing case.

Perhaps that's why Remain/Labour lost. You can't make the case.

 

[dead_soft]

Where did i do that? Quote the bit where i claim those things are gospel. I did say we should consider what they're saying, as they represent a majority-view of the country.

You're not considering anything, you're blankly dismissing the experiences of others.

Bizarrely, you seem to believe making a blanket statement like: we do not have no-go areas to be gospel.

Why should i trust your single statement over tens-of-thousands of other (virtual) statements? You're not making a convincing case.

Perhaps that's why Remain/Labour lost. You can't make the case.

This is so bizarre. Why should I take into account people’s viewpoints when they are demonstrably untrue? Just because lots of people have clicked like or a newspaper with a clear and heavy bias says so? You shouldn’t trust my statement you should go and find if there’s any real basis for this outside of one book selectively quoted in a newspaper with an agenda. You have a problem with an echo chamber, you’ve said but what exactly is the Daily Mail comments section? You can try and understand where the views come from but the views themselves don’t hold any truthful weight just because they are majority held, and it’s a pointless journey if that’s your starting point.
You say 10k likes on the comment should be listened to and yet in a different thread just hours ago you dismissively commented about listening to a tweet because it was liked more. The reason you don’t dismiss these if because they feed into a narrative about integration you believe and want supported. Very little evidence is actually given by the Bill Bryson of Islam and his Notes for the Small Minded.

Ridiculous to say ‘you’re not considering anything’ as if someone on here comes as a blank slate with no research or ideas of their own before hand.

Thank you, however, for believing that I am so powerful that I am the representative of two apparently different political movements - ‘The Left’ and ‘Remainers’.

 

[dholliday]

This is so bizarre. Why should I take into account people’s viewpoints when they are demonstrably untrue? Just because lots of people have clicked like or a newspaper with a clear and heavy bias says so? You shouldn’t trust my statement you should go and find if there’s any real basis for this outside of one book selectively quoted in a newspaper with an agenda. You have a problem with an echo chamber, you’ve said but what exactly is the Daily Mail comments section? You can try and understand where the views come from but the views themselves don’t hold any truthful weight just because they are majority held, and it’s a pointless journey if that’s your starting point.
You say 10k likes on the comment should be listened to and yet in a different thread just hours ago you dismissively commented about listening to a tweet because it was liked more. The reason you don’t dismiss these if because they feed into a narrative about integration you believe and want supported. Very little evidence is actually given by the Bill Bryson of Islam and his Notes for the Small Minded.

Ridiculous to say ‘you’re not considering anything’ as if someone on here comes as a blank slate with no research or ideas of their own before hand.

Thank you, however, for believing that I am so powerful that I am the representative of two apparently different political movements - ‘The Left’ and ‘Remainers’.

How are they "demonstrably untrue"?

 

[dholliday]

cancel culture doesn't exist, tho'

 

[Jamo Martinez]

good post, tubes.


personally i engage with all kinds of people in real-life, just as i read all kinds of media/forum online. i don't judge the platform, i judge what i read within that platform. The Mail has been very good with some stuff, and very bad with others (just like The Guardian, it's ideological mirror).


I'll answer your questions:

Why were experiences narrativised? Because they were told that way.
Why were they reported on? Because it seems newsworthy.

The top-rated comment has over 17,000 likes. It reads simply: "Should not be allowed to happen in the U.K."

the next two comments, with 14k/12k likes: "Decades of assorted British governments asleep at the wheel." - "Another example of Britain's tolerance being taken advantage of, time the Government took back control."

This mirrors what my old Neukölln Mayor was warning against. There is a pattern emerging in Europe. We're letting it emerge, as we appear to prefer to attack the messengers of things happening, rather than tackle the actual things happening.

I realise that the last thing you wanna do is agree with Mail-readers. I'm not expecting that. I am requesting that you merely consider their point-of-view.

Unfortunately we are left with no choice but to consider their point of view. They seem to be running the country.

 

[dholliday]

Unfortunately we are left with no choice but to consider their point of view. They seem to be running the country.

not necessarily for ever. in my experience when i consider someone's views with who i fundamentally disagree on certain things, they tend to be more willing to meet me a little more in the middle. examples of this are often with conservative muslims, i seem to have less joy with actual bad racists (they are out there, only thankfully not as much as some folk fear).

zooming out, Blair's third-way also showed a willingness to consider the concerns of conservative voters paid dividends on election days.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

not necessarily for ever. in my experience when i consider someone's views with who i fundamentally disagree on certain things, they tend to be more willing to meet me a little more in the middle. examples of this are often with conservative muslims, i seem to have less joy with actual bad racists (they are out there, only thankfully not as much as some folk fear).

zooming out, Blair's third-way also showed a willingness to consider the concerns of conservative voters paid dividends on election days.

Well, if by, 'consider the concerns of conservative voters' you mean turn the Labour party into Tory lite party, then yes it paid dividends at the election and did little to transform the lives of British people.

 

[dholliday]

Well, if by, 'consider the concerns of conservative voters' you mean turn the Labour party into Tory lite party, then yes it paid dividends at the election and did little to transform the lives of British people.

i'd disagree with that. i lived in London 98-05, so the peak Blair years. There was loads of great opportunity for eager young folk, educational/social programs and the like. i myself got an adult-ed teacher cert. paid for by such programs, i was told pre-Blair these had to be personally paid for.

Yous have to remember that if you consider New Labour tory-lite, then UK literally hasn't had a proper Labour government since the 70's.

You'd think Labour voters might want to win an election at some point, what with the amount of fuming they do at tories (and daily mail readers).

Opposition is easier, tho'. Less responsibility.

 

[dead_soft]

How are they "demonstrably untrue"?

By going to any of the areas.

If I said ‘a town in Leicestershire is run by foxes’ you would not be expected to assume I’m right even if 10k people commented and liked on an article I wrote about it. You can go there. You can use reason when no o other reputable sources are saying it’s run by foxes.

 

[dead_soft]

i'd disagree with that. i lived in London 98-05, so the peak Blair years. There was loads of great opportunity for eager young folk, educational/social programs and the like. i myself got an adult-ed teacher cert. paid for by such programs, i was told pre-Blair these had to be personally paid for.

Yous have to remember that if you consider New Labour tory-lite, then UK literally hasn't had a proper Labour government since the 70's.

You'd think Labour voters might want to win an election at some point, what with the amount of fuming they do at tories (and daily mail readers).

Opposition is easier, tho'. Less responsibility.

Yeah, all those Labour members actively working within their communities just avoid responsibility. Don’t just repeat worthless soundbites

 

[dead_soft]

cancel culture doesn't exist, tho'

Maybe all got a bit out of hand but should the ECB not investigate when one of their players repeatedly publicly made racist, homophobic, and sexist comments? And most companies would probably suspend during that investigation.

 

[dholliday]

Maybe all got a bit out of hand but should the ECB not investigate when one of their players repeatedly publicly made racist, homophobic, and sexist comments? And most companies would probably suspend during that investigation.

investigate, discover they were made a decade ago when he was a boy. ensure he apologises and profoundly understands he was out of order back then.

that should be it. why suspend him?

 

[dholliday]

cancel culture, tho':

translation: tv star fired for not choosing to get the vaccine, citing it makes for an unsafe workplace...unsafe for who??

ARD-Krimistar Eva Herzig verweigert Impfung und wird gekündigt

Der zuletzt aus dem "Steirerkrimi" bekannte TV-Star Eva Herzig will sich nicht verbiegen lassen und verweigert die Impfung. Die Produktionsfirma reagierte darauf unter Verweis auf eine "Sorgfaltspflicht" gegenüber den Mitarbeitern mit der Beendigung der Zusammenarbeit.

de.rt.com