Former Everton Managers discussion...

[davek]

Not the team but the manager himself. He can fluke or a fraud himself.

Dear God. Your bitterness blinds you from all he's done in the game and still does.

"The fraud" has won stuff and done stuff in English football and stands at the helm of an international squad brimming with talent and ready for the upcoming World Cup.

Your catcalls are not credible. It's just a hollow stance. He is what he is: a cup winning, record breaking, international manager.

 

[hktoffee]

Dear God. Your bitterness blinds you from all he's done in the game and still does.

"The fraud" has won stuff and done stuff in English football and stands at the helm of an international squad brimming with talent and ready for the upcoming World Cup.

Your catcalls are not credible. It's just a hollow stance. He is what he is: a cup winning, record breaking, international manager.

Ok lol, I have to repeated this all over again. Literally, you avoid to answer my questions and repeat your stance time after time.

Let's see what the fraud had done in the game? He won a (yes one) domestic cup with another club and relegated them to the Championship at the sametime in his 10 years managing career. I can name you people who won one domestic cup in the past. You do realize the list is gonna be so long! While you keep banging on the only, holy 72 points season you keep slating Koeman, Moshiri and Moyes. Agenda motivated.

I have asked you multiple times. Who were the past Belgium managers? Can you name the mighty list? Yes he is managing Belgium...so what? Big Sam, Ron H and now Southgate were managing England. Lippi is managing PRC. This does not prove anything.

I cannot see how your catcalls are credible either. You are making out the fraud is one of the greatest manager in the globe. He failed at Everton. Oh and like many people think, he is a fraud because of his 2nd and 3rd seasons which made up 2/3 of his tenure. Frankly, you are defending and praising him like he's your godfather or something Dave which is truly unbelievable.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Dear God. Your bitterness blinds you from all he's done in the game and still does.

"The fraud" has won stuff and done stuff in English football and stands at the helm of an international squad brimming with talent and ready for the upcoming World Cup.

Your catcalls are not credible. It's just a hollow stance. He is what he is: a cup winning, record breaking, international manager.

Dave we've been over this mate. Martinez has achieved as much as Bobby Gould in club football and as less then Roy Hodgson in international football.

 

[DualityNSNO]

No I dont, I analyse his time here warts an' all....which is the only way of reasonably assessing an ex-manager.*

When taking into account all of what happened - the good and the indifferent and the bad - we have a much more complex picture than you're frothing at the mouth about frauds and charlatans could ever offer. You're just not mature enough to give it.

*Edit: thought this was the ex managers thread - which is where this debate should be.

But you don't reply here about it

The good was about 15% of his tenure here, the rest was either indifferent or bad... To everyone but you.

 

[davek]

But you don't reply here about it

The good was about 15% of his tenure here, the rest was either indifferent or bad... To everyone but you.

Yes mate. This is where we should debate all matters Martinez as ex manager.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Yes mate. This is where we should debate all matters Martinez as ex manager.

Solid avoidance of the answer Daveyboy.

Do you want to build a strawman?

 

[DualityNSNO]

Banners out and booing / banners on reopening the school of science and songs about Bobby brown shoes.

They cancel each other out.

As said though, the ex managers thread looks a better fit for this.

Yeah, 1 season of good definitely makes up for 2 of frustration, anger and fanbase alienation.

Uh-huh.

 

[davek]

Solid avoidance of the answer Daveyboy.

Do you want to build a strawman?

Yeah, 1 season of good definitely makes up for 2 of frustration, anger and fanbase alienation.

Uh-huh.

My overall point is good: the history books will show the good the bad and the ugly...although the ugly will be airbrushed out, as all historical accounts tend to do.

I'm merely stating the pretty obvious here that a handful of lads fuming and name calling on a fan forum isn't going to be the way Martinez or any other manager's record will be presented and them remembered.

 

[DualityNSNO]

My overall point is good: the history books will show the good the bad and the ugly...although the ugly will be airbrushed out, as all historical accounts tend to do.

I'm merely stating the pretty obvious here that a handful of lads fuming and name calling on a fan forum isn't going to be the way Martinez or any other manager's record will be presented and them remembered.

Aye mate, just a bunch of lads on an internet forum mate.

No one outside of GrandOldTeam.com ever said a word.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...s/everton-fans-anti-roberto-martinez-11218228
Yeah.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36179980

Defo mate.

 

[Papa Shango]

Aye mate, just a bunch of lads on an internet forum mate.

No one outside of GrandOldTeam.com ever said a word.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...s/everton-fans-anti-roberto-martinez-11218228
Yeah.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36179980

Defo mate.

An utter embarrassment that.

 

[Papa Shango]

Dave we've been over this mate. Martinez has achieved as much as Bobby Gould in club football and as less then Roy Hodgson in international football.

Bit stupid to compare them isn't it seeing as their careers are over (or as good as).

 

[DualityNSNO]

Bit stupid to compare them isn't it seeing as their careers are over (or as good as).

Then when do you compare them? When one is just starting and the other's finished?

Don't agree on the time period for Gould per se, but it's not wrong is it? What have both won?

And yeah not a proud moment, but wonder why it happened with Martinez and isn't currently happening? Or with Davey Moist before Boberto?

 

[davek]

Aye mate, just a bunch of lads on an internet forum mate.

No one outside of GrandOldTeam.com ever said a word.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...s/everton-fans-anti-roberto-martinez-11218228
Yeah.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36179980

Defo mate.

It's all nonsense mate. All fluff. Inconsequential. History can just as easily point to portrayals like this:

...and this...

They all fall by the wayside though when the data is added up and the words in the history books written. And it will just state this:

"Roberto got off to a great first season when records were set for the club in the Premier League, as the Spaniard brought in a more possession based football style. Unfortunately, that standard could not be maintained and performances by and large in the following two seasons in the Premier League were disappointing. Though good runs in cup competitions domestically and in Europe offset that poor league form, Roberto and the club agreed to part company at the end of his third season in the Goodison Park hotseat."

An anodyne and safe assessment avoiding controversy (as they always do) and not without a large chunk of factual content.

In short: there is the history of Everton under Martinez which you and your cohorts would prefer to see written up, then there's the reality based on a mixture of truth and conservative respectability.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Bit stupid to compare them isn't it seeing as their careers are over (or as good as).

At this moment in time they have achieved just as much as Martinez. Should that change I'll withdraw my comment but until then it's valid.

 

[Papa Shango]

Then when do you compare them? When one is just starting and the other's finished?

Don't agree on the time period for Gould per se, but it's not wrong is it? What have both won?

And yeah not a proud moment, but wonder why it happened with Martinez and isn't currently happening? Or with Davey Moist before Boberto?

Comparing Hodgson who has had 30 years of International management with Martinez who has had one year is totally pointless surely?

I have said loads I had no objections to Martinez going but flying planes (be it for a manager or a chairman) is not very Everton for me. Or wasn't anyway.