FIFA banning poppies

[peteblue]

I reckon the same.

Feck FIFA, we remember our fallen no matter what, and won't be dictated to by of all organisations FIFA.

Just tell them to do one, refuse to pay any fine, let them throw us out, restart the Home Internationals and play invited Countries..........

 

[davek]

You have a point. When I were a kid, some people work a poppy, early November , and that was it. On the Sunday barest the 11th, there'd be a minute's silence .

I commented to a friend just thus year that the whole thing has got aggressive. If you don't wear one on TV people write in in disgust. In fact, on TV a paper poppy doesn't seem enough, and today you simply don't "remember " as Well as the next person unless you have a designer poppy.

I think it started after all the body bags started coming back from Iraq . The government upped the propaganda ante , allowed squaddies to wear uniforms in the street for the first time in decades and kicked off "help the heroes " to get loads of volunteers to make collections to properly look after those who were maimed, or lost, thus obfuscating any responsibility the government had towards its forces and the financial consequences of its decisions.

The grand gestures on TV at football and other sports events are just part of this bigging up. Wish the government would do the same bigging up for other people who dedicate themselves to society - nurses / firefighters for instance.

It's a ridiculous over reach - and I'd wager to say that a lot of the month long acknowledgment (which is now just about what it's become) is down to boosting consumer sales, because someone will be making a few quid out of the remembrance industry, you can bank on it...same way as Christmas started about this week and will last until the end of the year.

 

[summerisle]

It was the "Vietnamisation" of the British press after the Iraq and Afghanistan misadventures.

After the free press helped stop American excesses in Vietnam by reporting from the front, a decision was taken that never again would the press be allowed to freely move with frontline forces and record what was happening.

By the time of Desert Storm only military approved poodles were allowed those privileges......we had entered the age of the "embedded" reporter.

This went in tandem with a more pro military stance in the regular press and hey presto.....America has become a more martial society.

This is exactly what happened here after Blair's follies in the early years of this century.

They are trying to militarise the English people in the same way.

Hence the rise and, seemingly inexorable, rise of poppy fascism over the past decade.

And it will probably get worse.

I can honestly see it becoming the law here sometime in some virtual dystopian near future that the wearing of a poppy will become compulsory for every English person

I think the opposite has happened. There is absolutely no public support for any military adventures, now , or in the immediate future.

 

[summerisle]

It's a ridiculous over reach - and I'd wager to say that a lot of the month long acknowledgment (which is now just about what it's become) is down to boosting consumer sales, because someone will be making a few quid out of the remembrance industry, you can bank on it...same way as Christmas started about this week and will last until the end of the year.

All the money from poppy sales goes to the British Legion. Its the peripheries that are a bit suspect i.e. Only a third of the price of aTower of London poppy goes to good causes.

http://www.whistleblower.co.uk/Success-60/Tower+Of+London+Poppies+Investigation.aspx

 

[davek]

All the money from poppy sales goes to the British Legion. Its the peripheries that are a bit suspect i.e. Only a third of the price of aTower of London poppy goes to good causes.

http://www.whistleblower.co.uk/Success-60/Tower+Of+London+Poppies+Investigation.aspx

It's not just poppies. When this time of year swings around there's poppy clothes and accessories and I'm pretty sure the bulk isn't going to any cause other than a profit. Then there's the c-list celebrities milking it for all the free publicity it's worth.

 

[Khalekan]

I think the opposite has happened. There is absolutely no public support for any military adventures, now , or in the immediate future.

True.....just as there was no support for Blair's wars in the early noughhties.

But that never stopped him getting involved.....or rather getting the sons and daughters of other involved and in many cases die.

In truth there is rarely support or appetite for war before it starts.....but the flag waving starts the minute the guns begin to shoot and people support it no matter what the cause once the "patriotic card" is played.

That has been the rule of thumb employed by politicians and military generals for millennia.

Just watch this space.....somewhere down the line our government will involve us in another unpopular war but the people will end up, if not supporting it, at the very least tolerating it because it is the "patriotic" thing to do.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

I think them having a go at the FAW for fans in the crowd wearing a poppy is a bit much to be honest

England and Scotland flagrantly flaunted the rules, so whether you agree with it or not they do at least have some sort of case to answer

Sounds like the Welsh went about this in the right way and they're now going to get pelted for something out of their control

I mean, it's not like the fans were wearing something illegal. People regularly wear poppies in the UK in November. The fans in question may just have been wearing the poppy because it happened to be on their clothing as it always is for November. I think the FAW should fight FIFA all the way on this one, as it's incredibly unfair

Right on.

You can't expect a Football Association to screen the clothing of 40,000 people entering a stadium.

 

[summerisle]

True.....just as there was no support for Blair's wars in the early naughties.

But that never stopped him getting involved.....or rather getting the sons and daughters of other involved and in many cases die.

In truth there is rarely support or appetite for war before it starts.....but the flag waving starts the minute the guns begin to shoot and people support it no matter what the cause once the "patriotic card" is played.

That has been the rule of thumb employed by politicians and military generals for millennia.

The only wars before Blair were the Falklands, which we won, and the interventions in the Balkans. Blair became emboldened after Sierra Leone leading him to the disasters in the Middle East. This coupled with Libya etc., and other disasters means I think no government would risk another war unless there were exceptional circumstances. Public opinion now, coupled with the Government's majority would see to that.

 

[chrismpw]

Tr

True.....just as there was no support for Blair's wars in the early noughhties.

But that never stopped him getting involved.....or rather getting the sons and daughters of other involved and in many cases die.

In truth there is rarely support or appetite for war before it starts.....but the flag waving starts the minute the guns begin to shoot and people support it no matter what the cause once the "patriotic card" is played.

That has been the rule of thumb employed by politicians and military generals for millennia.

Just watch this space.....somewhere down the line our government will involve us in another unpopular war but the people will end up, if not supporting it, at the very least tolerating it because it is the "patriotic" thing to do.

True stuff. Remember the Falklands? Maggie grabbed it as an opportunity to show strength and win votes as a distraction away from a crumbling economy. The media whipped the UK into a patriotic fervour, and fairly nice fellas like Ossie Ardiles and Ricky Villa were sneered at.

I raise this, because despite the mainstream media's attempt to raise a fervour, there were the likes of Pink Floyd releasing "the final cut" - a classic antiwar /anti Maggie album. I just don't feel the pop industry would do that today. All kind of media is sympathetic to the establishment, not just the news. And I don't think the kids think about, or are aware of the way they're manipulated.

 

[Khalekan]

Tr

True stuff. Remember the Falklands? Maggie grabbed it as an opportunity to show strength and win votes as a distraction away from a crumbling economy. The media whipped the UK into a patriotic fervour, and fairly nice fellas like Ossie Ardiles and Ricky Villa were sneered at.

I raise this, because despite the mainstream media's attempt to raise a fervour, there were the likes of Pink Floyd releasing "the final cut" - a classic antiwar /anti Maggie album. I just don't feel the pop industry would do that today. All kind of media is sympathetic to the establishment, not just the news. And I don't think the kids think about, or are aware of the way they're manipulated.

You are not wrong there, Chris.

The thoughts of anti establishment music from today's pop music industry is just laughable.

 

[Khalekan]

The only wars before Blair were the Falklands, which we won, and the interventions in the Balkans. Blair became emboldened after Sierra Leone leading him to the disasters in the Middle East. This coupled with Libya etc., and other disasters means I think no government would risk another war unless there were exceptional circumstances. Public opinion now, coupled with the Government's majority would see to that.

Aye up.

Have you forgotten Desert Storm?

 

[Khalekan]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...military-heroes-medals?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


If it was April 1st I would have thought this was a wind up

But no....it is another example of how this country is being led toward a greater reverence of all things martial

 

[degsy]

FIFA have more or less said that yes they will look at the case but - they can't give a timeline on a decision, aka we hope it will all go away as we are on a bit of a loser here

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...military-heroes-medals?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


If it was April 1st I would have thought this was a wind up

But no....it is another example of how this country is being led toward a greater reverence of all things martial

I mean, if you're pretending to be a war hero when you haven't actually been in one that is kind of pathetic like, and if you do it in order to benefit yourself financially then that's technically fraud and I don't see why you shouldn't be prosecuted for it if found guilty

I assume this law won't also target people who go out in fancy dress? Because I think it's clear in those situations that they aren't purporting to be be real soldiers in the first place

 

[Khalekan]

I mean, if you're pretending to be a war hero when you haven't actually been in one that is kind of pathetic like, and if you do it in order to benefit yourself financially then that's technically fraud and I don't see why you shouldn't be prosecuted for it if found guilty

I assume this law won't also target people who go out in fancy dress? Because I think it's clear in those situations that they aren't purporting to be be real soldiers in the first place

Indeed.

If the medals used for fraudulent purposes there are existing laws about gaining money under false pretences.

But these politicians are calling it the "Walter Mitty" law and want the type of pathetic person you refer to put in jail for wearing a medal, even he ain't trying to defraud money from someone.

"Contemptible fantasists" is the term one of the people lobbying to make this a law used for them.

And military medals aren't only awarded for gallantry or heroics......most the ones you see are campaign medals.

Where will that leave the Queen when she dresses up for Trooping the Colour