Alas, there's no point in reading someone's comments. Since your comments are generally non-threatening, I'm afraid I'll have to shoot you. You may put your hands up, but I'd prefer if you turned your back to me before I shoot.
Ferguson
- Thread starter Fuleco
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Alas, there's no point in reading someone's comments. Since your comments are generally non-threatening, I'm afraid I'll have to shoot you. You may put your hands up, but I'd prefer if you turned your back to me before I shoot.
It can be difficult to make 'good' decisions when you've just had somebody trying to grab for your gun and possibly end your life. It's very easy to sit on an internet forum and talk in hindsight about officer training.
sageyefc
Player Valuation: £90m
Officer was trying to arrest him, gave chase, hoodlum truned back and charged again, officer shot him. Adrenalines pumping, hes already dazed from the first attack. Justified imo
I feel bad asking you to read something I've previously written, but alas... maybe we can start here
http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/ferguson.69296/page-38#post-3168157
None of that has anything to do with this case.
Wilson's comments were that his face turned into a demon and he thought the next punch would be fatal. Wilson also commented that he did not bring non-lethal weapons with him. This seems to suggest that Wilson did not for a moment believe that he could use non-lethal force in subduing Brown. Assaulting an officer is a serious offense, and I don't suggest that an officer should not be free to protect him/herself when attacked, but can you honestly tell me that you think Wilson was making a good choice in trying to subdue him? Maybe call for backup? Track him? Are there no other options than to chase him and shoot him?
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
The thing is though that if you put officers by themselves, arm them with firearms and ask them to patrol areas like that then things like this will always happen. Also IIRC he had already shot him several times whilst they were in the car.
He shot twice and a bullet grazed his hand.
Agreed; most officer in the US are over-equipped and under-trained. That doesn't justify their decisions, even if a court can rule justifiable homicide.
This is incorrect. This is part of a pattern that is resulting in these sorts of problems.
Cases like this and the community reaction stemming from them must not be taken in a vacuum. People are questioning why the police are distrusted, why the grand jury is questioned, and why the black community feels disenfranchised.
The pattern of black people dying under questionable circumstances at the hands of the police is the true story, and the story that Michael Brown has brought to the surface.
The protests aren't about Brown individually. They are about systemic discrimination in America by law enforcement against people of color.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
It does if they are put in a situation where they have to go with the firearm almost all the time, though.
When discussing the actual events of what happened on that day it's not relevant. I don't believe that the police officer would have acted differently if a large, imposing white male had reached inside of the police vehicle and fought with him, rather than a black male.
I do.
I truly honestly believe the entire thing would have happened differently if Brown was white.
More importantly, if Brown was white there would be no question that it was self defense.
johnnydawg68
Chairperson, People's Front of Saint Domingo
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/st-louis-grand-jury_n_6216464.html
St. Louis Blues: An Old Refrain In Grand Jury Decision
WASHINGTON -- If you know St. Louis, or Missouri for that matter, you know that the family of Michael Brown had no chance, and that police Officer Darren Wilson would go free.
St. Louis is a lovely place, but legally it can be a toxic police mixture of the Midwestern love of social order and Border State race-based severity.
The city is in some ways on the most tremulous fault line in the history of race in America: The home of W.C. Handy and the blues, of Chuck Berry and rock 'n roll, of the Dred Scott court decision on runaway slaves.
Not surprisingly, the Missouri state legislature has chosen repeatedly to ignore a landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision of 1985, which held that a police officer cannot use lethal force against a fleeing suspect unless the officer has reason to believe the suspect is armed and an immediate threat to public order.
Instead, a police officer in Missouri can shoot a person the officer believes to be a fleeing felon. Period. Not to mention that the officer can shoot one who is moving toward him in a threatening manner.
So the real complaint in Missouri on Monday night should not really be with the county prosecutor, however defensive and cloying he may have been in announcing the grand jury's failure to indict the officer who shot the teenager.
It is with Missouri, and America, for thumbs-on-the-scale state laws that the federal government -- from Abraham Lincoln forward -- has only partly ameliorated.
St. Louis is emblematic of the glory and the tragedy of the racial history of which this case is only the latest example. The city was a licentious, anything-goes river town in which the slave trade flourished, and was run in later years by German-American burghers and scions of the slave-holding South who wanted to preserve order, and the Old Order.
At Mardi Gras in St. Louis, there are still clubs severely limited, shall we say, in racial terms.
Some laws are a holdover from those days. They made it easy for the grand jury to return a "no true bill" -- that is, no indictment on any charges -- against Wilson.
Let's face it: In St. Louis, everyone knows who most of the suspected fleeing felons are. They are black. They are from the north side of St. Louis and similar places. It is the way things have worked since the blues began, and barbecue became a thing, and Michael Brown supposedly swiped some cigars. It was the reported theft of them that made the teen a suspected felon and that sealed his fate.
And let's make no mistake: St. Louis is as American, for better and for worse, as a city can get.
St. Louis Blues: An Old Refrain In Grand Jury Decision
WASHINGTON -- If you know St. Louis, or Missouri for that matter, you know that the family of Michael Brown had no chance, and that police Officer Darren Wilson would go free.
St. Louis is a lovely place, but legally it can be a toxic police mixture of the Midwestern love of social order and Border State race-based severity.
The city is in some ways on the most tremulous fault line in the history of race in America: The home of W.C. Handy and the blues, of Chuck Berry and rock 'n roll, of the Dred Scott court decision on runaway slaves.
Not surprisingly, the Missouri state legislature has chosen repeatedly to ignore a landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision of 1985, which held that a police officer cannot use lethal force against a fleeing suspect unless the officer has reason to believe the suspect is armed and an immediate threat to public order.
Instead, a police officer in Missouri can shoot a person the officer believes to be a fleeing felon. Period. Not to mention that the officer can shoot one who is moving toward him in a threatening manner.
So the real complaint in Missouri on Monday night should not really be with the county prosecutor, however defensive and cloying he may have been in announcing the grand jury's failure to indict the officer who shot the teenager.
It is with Missouri, and America, for thumbs-on-the-scale state laws that the federal government -- from Abraham Lincoln forward -- has only partly ameliorated.
St. Louis is emblematic of the glory and the tragedy of the racial history of which this case is only the latest example. The city was a licentious, anything-goes river town in which the slave trade flourished, and was run in later years by German-American burghers and scions of the slave-holding South who wanted to preserve order, and the Old Order.
At Mardi Gras in St. Louis, there are still clubs severely limited, shall we say, in racial terms.
Some laws are a holdover from those days. They made it easy for the grand jury to return a "no true bill" -- that is, no indictment on any charges -- against Wilson.
Let's face it: In St. Louis, everyone knows who most of the suspected fleeing felons are. They are black. They are from the north side of St. Louis and similar places. It is the way things have worked since the blues began, and barbecue became a thing, and Michael Brown supposedly swiped some cigars. It was the reported theft of them that made the teen a suspected felon and that sealed his fate.
And let's make no mistake: St. Louis is as American, for better and for worse, as a city can get.
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