Fans who don't "get" our club

[ianefc]

I've not said any of those things Ian. Read it again.

Will do, and apologies if I've misunderstood.

 

[Groucho]

Not sure if this is a recent thing or just social media etc makes it more noticable but it seems to me a good chunk of our fanbase has no concept of what it means, or traditionally meant, to be an Evertonian. The old "School of Science" worked two ways. Not only were our team techinically gifted but the fans were knowledgable and sensible. We left the stupid banners and cringy songs to the mutants across the park and actually went for a football match not a circus.

Everton fans are supposed to be grounded, smart, with a strong sense of tradition of all things Blue. That includes being winners by the way. We used to win stuff you know.

So when I see people advocating Rafael (RS darling who called us "a small club"), Moyes (did a wonderful job initially then back stabbed us after he left - remember how we should have let Baines leave for his own good?) I wonder do they actually "get" Everton at all?

Like wise on the last poll there were a huge number of peopel wanting Bilic in - the man who screwed our club over by feigning injury and costing us a fortune only to be magically cured when his contract was torn up.

Surely no real Evertonian wants any of those people given the honour of running our club?

There is more to it than just wanting anyone in charge.

Look at how Bobby, an awful manager but by all accounts a lovely man, is being treated. We have had people abusing the manager while he was out with his wife, referring to him as "scum" amongst other insults on this very website that used to be better than that.

Not to mention those who wanted us to lose games just so he would get sacked quicker.....

A while ago some people here were patting the kopite "heroes" on the back after they snuck into the away end. Ridiculous. When did being a lad and a trying to appear to be hard case be more important than being a true blue who detests everything about their club?

I could go on but I think you get the idea. Maybe I'm out of touch (Im in my 40s, old enough to have seen us win stuff in the 80s and the witnessed the full horror of most of what happened after) but it really does seem like many fans just dont get what this noble club is (or should be) about.

I think some points here are good, but there is an element I disagree with.

Never been impressed with supposed 'hard cases'. And I agree that I DO NOT WANT Benitez or Moyes for the reasons you outline. And I have never ever wanted us to lose a game, never. Also, Martinez should not have to put up with personal abuse and nor should his wife.

But where we differ is the banners/songs as a form of protest - Martinez is not good enough for Everton and some people visibly/vocally put this across. I do think, if there's something that clearly needs changing and we are not happy with as a fanbase on the whole, we should be able to demonstrate that without fear of people saying 'but Everton don't protest'.

Should we just accept poor performances? Should we never speak up because 'it's not Everton'? I don't think that should be the case. Can you suggest another, more 'Everton' way to show displeasure?

Other than that bit, I see your point-ish.

 

[1966efc]

I, personally, haven't booed at the match ... normally because I'm doing the crossword or catching up with the Archers on what I'm told is a 'digital device'.

The club banned flags (or, rather, flag poles) because of safety concerns in the late 60's. Didn't stop people bringing them in. By the early 80's, many supporters were so sick of the club's failure to regain its place among the elite that the tradition of singing / flags was gradually dying out. It was revived by the club's successes for a shortish while but as fortunes dipped, it died out again.

And since the advent of all seating, anything resembling atmosphere was either banned, discouraged or looked on as "Kopite".

It doesn't surprise me that supporters who were introduced to Goodison in the 80's should be a bit non - plussed by some of the stuff that happens now but it's simply not new.

 

[BlueLlama]

I would take Rafael all day. but there are other managers i would prefer above him

Point proven.

Get out.

 

[bignev23]

I would take Rafael all day. but there are other managers i would prefer above him

Rafael has the C.V. but because of his association with the red [Poor language removed] he is damaged goods and would be impossible to employ here now for me.

I think it's more to do with access to peoples thoughts and feelings via social media, plus the game is global now a fact we have to embrace. I get where you are coming from like but still a very broad statement.

I'm a wool have supported Everton over 30years I think if anyone is daft enough to put themselves through watching our ups n downs, mainly downs, then they should have a voice too.

As well as social media I think it has a lot to do with people only supporting clubs only because it is a fashionable thing to do and then they try to impress others to make themselves look knowledgeable by speaking about it as if they own the gaff and have all their coaching badges, when the reality is they've only ever heard what they're saying either said by someone else or read about it in a paper but try to pass it off as fact. I have no problem with anyone supporting us but if you(not you personally) start acting like a knob don't be surprised if your pulled up on it.

 

[Toast]

Rafael has the C.V. but because of his association with the red [Poor language removed] he is damaged goods and would be impossible to employ here now for me.




As well as social media I think it has a lot to do with people only supporting clubs only because it is a fashionable thing to do and then they try to impress others to make themselves look knowledgeable by speaking about it as if they own the gaff and have all their coaching badges, when the reality is they've only ever heard what they're saying either said by someone else or read about it in a paper but try to pass it off as fact. I have no problem with anyone supporting us but if you(not you personally) start acting like a knob don't be surprised if your pulled up on it.

I hate liverpool and Newcastle.
Rafael has managed them both.

So its a no from me.

 

[bignev23]

I hate liverpool and Newcastle.
Rafael has managed them both.

So its a no from me.

Whooaa there I'm not advocating Rafael mate. It's a No from me too lets make that clear.

 

[caught]

Not sure if this is a recent thing or just social media etc makes it more noticable but it seems to me a good chunk of our fanbase has no concept of what it means, or traditionally meant, to be an Evertonian. The old "School of Science" worked two ways. Not only were our team techinically gifted but the fans were knowledgable and sensible. We left the stupid banners and cringy songs to the mutants across the park and actually went for a football match not a circus.

I think it's a social media thing. Nobs existed before the internet and will exist long after the internet explodes in Y2K.

Everton fans are supposed to be grounded, smart, with a strong sense of tradition of all things Blue. That includes being winners by the way. We used to win stuff you know.

Are we? I mean, we think that, sure, but you'll find plenty of other fans who'll say we're all a deluded bunch of idiots and always have been - just like we say about other clubs' fans. If you've spotted a distinct change in the attitude of fans at Goodison over the last 30 years then fair enough, although I don't see it. Certainly the clearest changes I've noticed since I started going to the match as a kid in the mid-90s is that fans are a bit more obsessed with tactics and there's no longer any overt racism.

So when I see people advocating Rafael (RS darling who called us "a small club"), Moyes (did a wonderful job initially then back stabbed us after he left - remember how we should have let Baines leave for his own good?) I wonder do they actually "get" Everton at all?

Like wise on the last poll there were a huge number of peopel wanting Bilic in - the man who screwed our club over by feigning injury and costing us a fortune only to be magically cured when his contract was torn up.

Surely no real Evertonian wants any of those people given the honour of running our club?

I don't want any of those three as Everton manager, but it doesn't necessarily diminish an Evertonian's credibility if they think Benitez, Bilic or Moyes would do a good job. Maybe some fans don't recall Bilic stealing a salary, or maybe some just don't care. Maybe some people privilege Benitez's successes over local rivalries (and since our fanbase is spread further than ever this is understandable). And maybe some think the job Moyes did in his first years here is more important than his actions when he left. None of those reasons would convince me, but it wouldn't mean a person didn't 'get' Everton if they thought so.

There is more to it than just wanting anyone in charge.

Possibly, yeah, and it would be great if our manager was simultaneously a stand-up guy, popcorn wum genius and a master tactician. However, if I'm forced to choose which quality is most important I'll go for the guy that wins games.

Look at how Bobby, an awful manager but by all accounts a lovely man, is being treated. We have had people abusing the manager while he was out with his wife, referring to him as "scum" amongst other insults on this very website that used to be better than that.

Not to mention those who wanted us to lose games just so he would get sacked quicker.....

Yeah, it's a bit much. His performance as manager should obviously come under scrutiny. And one aspect of his role is in his communication with the fans, which has been problematic and has resulted in criticism spilling over into the personal at times. Anything past that point, though, is out of line. I haven't read anything about him getting stick in his personal life and I'm embarrassed by blues who'd do such a thing.

I could go on but I think you get the idea. Maybe I'm out of touch (Im in my 40s, old enough to have seen us win stuff in the 80s and the witnessed the full horror of most of what happened after) but it really does seem like many fans just dont get what this noble club is (or should be) about.

Outside of wanting a good manager and publicly applying pressure to the board through protests (I won't come back to abusing Martinez in person) I don't see any other complaint here. If wanting a manager who has somehow wronged the club in the past is an enormous problem for some that's fine, but I'd counter it's just as much about personal pride than 'getting' Everton.

And regarding planes and banners: I think you need to see the bigger picture. The contributions we're making to the niche light aircraft advertising industry are significant and shouldn't be disregarded, while Martinez Out banners offer blues are perfect gateway into the magical world of arts and crafts.

In conclusion, I lost interest about halfway through this response and I realise now that I should get a job.

Come on Sunderland!

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Before the internet it was Tommy Smith's letters page in the Pink Echo

Never got mine published. Forget about a 'Fair tackle' , I didn't even get an 'Over the top'!

Then again, giving him a tip that he should pull the net down on his hat when he tends to his beehives, or asking if he was fed by catapult when he was a baby, reckoning I could easily beat him in a penalty shoot-out at wembley, as well as asking if he was gonna be inviting howard gayle round for an evening in watching a boxset of 'love thy neighbour' isn't really that newsworthy for the red echo, I suppose.


But I guess it's what my idea of 'getting Everton' is.

 

[Toast]

Never got mine published. Forget about a 'Fair tackle' , I didn't even get an 'Over the top'!

Then again, giving him a tip that he should pull the net down on his hat when he tends to his beehives, or asking if he was fed by catapult when he was a baby, reckoning I could easily beat him in a penalty shoot-out at wembley, as well as asking if he was gonna be inviting howard gayle round for an evening in watching a boxset of 'love thy neighbour' isn't really that newsworthy for the red echo, I suppose.


But I guess it's what my idea of 'getting Everton' is.

The beehives made me proper laugh mate..

I can't justify putting a pic of his bee stung face on GOT though..

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

The beehives made me proper laugh mate..

I can't justify putting a pic of his bee stung face on GOT though..

Just put an aerial photograph of a post-Passchendaele battlefield up instead - those who don't know will soon get the idea

 

[Pilks]

First thing I thought here is 'Dey just get us, doh' is 24-carat, hallmarked RS bellendery, and we shouldn't go there

I'm 54, so I go back to Catterick, and I agree on some things here and disagree on others. I'd rather go down under a blkue than stay up under Rafael, that's point one. I loathe and desopise the RS, and I cheerfully admit I wanted us to lose that Man City game. Giving them the title for the sake of maybe one place difference in mid-table is something I couldn't countenance.

I would be happy with Bilic though. Okay, there was some controversy when he left, but I'd balance that by the shift he put in while he was here. Never gave less than 100% in a game and didn't shirk from a tackle. I'll give him the benefit.

The point about fans being of all types has always been true though. I know people who'd rather Liverpool win than United. I don't condone this behaviour, but it's there. Where I'd draw the line, though, si those joint 'Merseyside' team photo posters from 1986. Anyone ever owning one of those should of course be put to death...

 

[summerisle]

Never got mine published. Forget about a 'Fair tackle' , I didn't even get an 'Over the top'!

Then again, giving him a tip that he should pull the net down on his hat when he tends to his beehives, or asking if he was fed by catapult when he was a baby, reckoning I could easily beat him in a penalty shoot-out at wembley, as well as asking if he was gonna be inviting howard gayle round for an evening in watching a boxset of 'love thy neighbour' isn't really that newsworthy for the red echo, I suppose.


But I guess it's what my idea of 'getting Everton' is.

I remember Frank Mcghee, self opinionated columnist on the Sunday Mirror talking codswallop about us in the seventies. I wrote a sternly worded reprimand, which wasn't published, probably due to the use of foul and abusive language. This was mild in comparison -

 

[Dario Terracotta]

Not at all, I have raised that as a slight defence for some of the behaviour, I never said in the OP that we had perfect fans just I dont recall anyone lobbying for Dalglish, Shankley etc to be our boss!

Saw an article recently it may even be in the Shankley Hotel in town about how interested Shanks was in the Everton job I think when Billy Bingham left in 1977,nothing came of it,but it would have been a move that would have rocked the local/national football world

 

[Dario Terracotta]

Before the internet it was Tommy Smith's letters page in the Pink Echo

Always had a dread that barsteward was my dad as I was born in the next bed to Smiffo's lad Darren at Ormskirk Hozzie, I mean you hear things about babies getting switched don't you?lol