FA Cup Semi Final - who do you fancy?

[chazzle_dazzle]

David Gold and the West Ham websites all saying we're hoping Man United go through as we're afraid of facing them.

LOL.

I hope we face West Ham at Wembley I really do.

I have just been pissing my keks at a west ham article on newsnow saying we are cheering on UTD. I want West ham now more then anything to put them in their places the forever blowing knobbubble beauts

 

[Ashtonian]

I disagree. And I'm surprised that so many are suddenly seeing the PL matches as inconveniences when, for them, they were all must win games for an underfire manager to prove he's worth keeping.

So I suppose what I'm asking is whether this change in attitude means that further league defeats now cant be used as a stick to beat the manager with given that 'the season is over'?

If used to further the cup campaign then that wouldn't be the case for me. Moyes got it wrong on that front but If a few players didn't appear in the derby just to play a few days later then I wouldn't hold that against him. At he end of the day it's only one game we have now so no reason to weaken the performances league wise.

If we had beat west ham and west brom then right now league wise we could be even eying city up as being catchable, instead we are only two teams off the bottom of the league as it currently stands. But now the fa cup has become realistic then you could chalk the league off as a trade for a trophy, But a third year underperforming and he would have to go, cup or not.

 

[davek]

It's not difficult to understand...

Martinez goosed the league, so it is now not as important as the best we can do realistically is finish 9th or something.

So while they still technically matter, the only thing he has left to get some credibility out of a disastrous campaign is to win the cup.

That doesn't mean the cup is more important than the league - it just means at this point the league has been butchered so badly that it's a write off for the second season running.

But the league placings were of the utmost importance this tome last week, weren't they? That's what you and a few others were saying: that every place counted in the financial stakes, and that it was important in any case to show that we hadn't become a bottom half of the table club.

Now it all seems to be the attitude that "oh the Pl was screwed by Martinez months ago, so we may as well just lump on the cup game(s)".

There's some hand brake turns going on here.

 

[Tubey]

But the league placings were of the utmost importance this tome last week, weren't they? That's what you and a few others were saying: that every place counted in the financial stakes, and that it was important in any case to show that we hadn't become a bottom half of the table club.

Now it all seems to be the attitude that "oh the Pl was screwed by Martinez months ago, so we may as well just lump on the cup game(s)".

There's some hand brake turns going on here.

You know what happened mate? Martinez brought Niasse on for Lennon and we threw away a two goal lead.

Boom, season dead right there. Could have been very different - six point swing game if we held on to the lead, but we didn't.

As said, every place does matter financially, but in terms of Martinez escaping this season with any semblance of a defence of his performance, he only has the cup left now.

I don't even know what you're trying to argue here. The goalposts haven't changed - Martinez has failed in the league this season, that is now established, and there's only one thing left to judge him on. If he wins the cup, he effectively plays his get out of jail card and gets the start of next season to get us going. Even a heroic final performance ending in defeat will buy him time.

If he limps out in the semi final, you'll see things get very anti-Martinez in a very short amount of time amongst Evertonians. For those reasons, this has now effectively become a two game season for Martinez.

 

[davek]

would you still make changes for the derby? i still think we could change 3/4 players without a big impact

I said last night, mate, that an idea might be to rest a few against Southampton a week before Wembley (giving them a 10 day rest before the derby and Wembley games). That would allow us to cope with any fatigue and make us competitive for both games.

So, for instance, drop Lukaku, Mori, Coleman, McCarthy for the Southampton game and play them against Liverpool, with Lennon, Barkley, Barry, Besic (as examples) rested for the SF.

In short: we can creatively juggle and win both games.

 

[Tubey]

I said last night, mate, that an idea might be to rest a few against Southampton a week before Wembley (giving them a 10 day rest before the derby and Wembley games). That would allow us to cope with any fatigue and make us competitive for both games.

So, for instance, drop Lukaku, Mori, Coleman, McCarthy for the Southampton game and play them against Liverpool, with Lennon, Barkley, Barry, Besic (as examples) rested for the SF.

In short: we can creatively juggle and win both games.

Wouldn't take a risk against the thugs across the park with any of our key players in what is effectively a dead rubber derby at this point.

 

[davek]

You know what happened mate? Martinez brought Niasse on for Lennon and we threw away a two goal lead.

Boom, season dead right there. Could have been very different - six point swing game if we held on to the lead, but we didn't.

As said, every place does matter financially, but in terms of Martinez escaping this season with any semblance of a defence of his performance, he only has the cup left now.

I don't even know what you're trying to argue here. The goalposts haven't changed - Martinez has failed in the league this season, that is now established, and there's only one thing left to judge him on. If he wins the cup, he effectively plays his get out of jail card and gets the start of next season to get us going. Even a heroic final performance ending in defeat will buy him time.

If he limps out in the semi final, you'll see things get very anti-Martinez in a very short amount of time amongst Evertonians. For those reasons, this has now effectively become a two game season for Martinez.

Two cup SFs and a top half finish - if you think Martinez is facing the sack with that record in a season you are slap bang in the throes of forum fever. It's a complete misreading of the power dynamic behind the scenes at Goodison Park.

It's important for him and important for Everton that we pick points up now. I cant believe the 180 degree turn being carried out here by posters who 5 days ago were insistent that every point counted. No consistency whatsoever. "League placings do matter...but not now that there's a cup SF place booked".

 

[davek]

Wouldn't take a risk against the thugs across the park with any of our key players in what is effectively a dead rubber derby at this point.

It's not ideal, but Lukaku could pick up an injury in any of the four or five games we have before the SF, and we cant put him in cotton wool. He has to play as many of those as possible.

 

[Tubey]

Two cup SFs and a top half finish - if you think Martinez is facing the sack with that record in a season you are slap bang in the throes of forum fever. It's a complete misreading of the power dynamic behind the scenes at Goodison Park.

It's important for him and important for Everton that we pick points up now. I cant believe the 180 degree turn being carried out here by posters who 5 days ago were insistent that every point counted. No consistency whatsoever. "League placings do matter...but not now that there's a cup SF place booked".

Bold part is not an achievement for us. Never has been, never will be.

 

[toffeeblue9]

Different scenario to 11/12 this

That year we were playing Sunderland at home in a QF at the weekend (and we still ****ing drew), this year we'll be playing a semi final at Wembley against a much tougher opponent

On this occasion, I would be happy enough to put a 2nd XI out and rest everyone ahead of the weekend game, especially if we end up playing on the Saturday semi final slot

It will hurt if we get tonked and we'll have to put up with a lot of crap from those bells, but the bigger picture makes the risk worthwhile

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Two cup SFs and a top half finish - if you think Martinez is facing the sack with that record in a season you are slap bang in the throes of forum fever. It's a complete misreading of the power dynamic behind the scenes at Goodison Park.

It's important for him and important for Everton that we pick points up now. I cant believe the 180 degree turn being carried out here by posters who 5 days ago were insistent that every point counted. No consistency whatsoever. "League placings do matter...but not now that there's a cup SF place booked".

I most defo don't feel like that - the league is still massively important and i don't want to be a lower tier team in the prem (based on where we finish).

 

[Saint Domingo]

That's a re-writing of recent history on here. Nobody had given up on the league games before the victory over Chelsea (quite rightly, as we can pick up some points and get a reasonable finish to the season). However, some who were taking the line that Martinez needed to get top 8 or whatever are now seemingly suggesting it's ok to soft pedal on the league games and preserve strength for the SF game. That's where the inconsistency lies.

That's because the top 8 is now gone (probably). We're talking about soft pedalling one game as well not a whole league season. It's also a game where injuries are very likely so it makes sense as the cup is the only tangible prize left. The inconsistency works the other way as well, I'm sure if we continue with our 11th best league form as displayed recently then there'll be those saying 'doesn't matter it's all about the cup'. Yes it is, but we are in this position because we have thrown the league. Spurs and Leicester actually threw other competitions because they are going for a league title. We are bottom half.

 

[Tubey]

I most defo don't feel like that - the league is still massively important and i don't want to be a lower tier team in the prem (based on where we finish).

Same.

I'm speaking largely about what it means to Martinez at this point. It doesn't really matter in terms of the fan opinion of him whether we finish 9th or 11th, as you will either think of him as a God like some do for some reason or an absolute failure regardless. The minimum expectation for most people was around 7th, and that would have been a poor season really.

When I speak about the cup importance now, for me it doesn't really matter either way as the bread and butter is the league - but for general fan opinion I recognise that this is now a two game season for Martinez.

I maintain that if we limp out in the cup, even the most passive, casual fan will turn against Martinez, regardless of our finish in the league, so that's why it is as important as it is now.

 

[toffeeblue9]

Same.

I'm speaking largely about what it means to Martinez at this point. It doesn't really matter in terms of the fan opinion of him whether we finish 9th or 11th, as you will either think of him as a God like some do for some reason or an absolute failure regardless. The minimum expectation for most people was around 7th, and that would have been a poor season really.

When I speak about the cup importance now, for me it doesn't really matter either way as the bread and butter is the league - but for general fan opinion I recognise that this is now a two game season for Martinez.

I maintain that if we limp out in the cup, even the most passive, casual fan will turn against Martinez, regardless of our finish in the league, so that's why it is as important as it is now.

Disagree with the point in bold - 7th was my expectation so that would have been the par score. Anything above would have been good, anything below is below expectations - and below is what we're getting. Only way he saves it is with a good cup run. Two semis and a 10th place or whatever might be enough to keep him his job, but it may well not be enough to stop the fans turning on him. An FA Cup win, a semi final in the League Cup and a top half finish and I guarantee a huge proportion of blues will forget all about the inconsistencies of this season.

 

[nikom court]

only winning the cup will get Martinez another season,imho
west ham fans have had a hard on for everton since payets injury,
id rather play them than utd any day,they really think highly of themselves nowadays and need taking down a peg or two.