Everton Youth Teams Thread

[Raino85]

That's the problem

Jags has been poor and Holgate can't get a look in despite his promising start and Davies isn't even included in a squad that includes the ever under performing Tom cleverly.

Koeman recycles the same under-performing senior players every 2 weeks.

If he's not going to give the young lads time then let them go on loan and get first team experience. Especially Davies

A year or so i would of agreed with you, but the type of loans we were getting last year for the likes of Walsh, Kenny & Ledson were not good enough standard.
The likes of United, City, Chelsea and even the RS can loan there players out to better sides as they are the big name clubs in football and everyone wants a player associated with these clubs.
There is also a point to keeping this u23 group together this season and really go and try and win a couple of trophies with them. Build a winning mentality between the players plus we can keep a closer eye on there progression when they are at the club.
Ultimately probably our best answer to fix this would be introducing B teams into the league system but i dont think that will ever happen as the lower leagues in this country are so much stronger than the likes of germany and Spain, or introducing rules at clubs becoming feeder clubs possibly.

Going back to the keeping the group together to build a winning mentality, this has worked for both spain and germany at international level, Germany had a team with Boetang, Neuer, Ozil, Khedira etc all playing at a u21 european tournament years ago, and although they could of walked into the 1st team they put them all together at u21 level so they built an undrstanding and grew as a team together.
Its abit harder to do this at club level though, with transfers in and out of the club it is hard to keep a group together

 

[bluewally]

A year or so i would of agreed with you, but the type of loans we were getting last year for the likes of Walsh, Kenny & Ledson were not good enough standard.
The likes of United, City, Chelsea and even the RS can loan there players out to better sides as they are the big name clubs in football and everyone wants a player associated with these clubs.
There is also a point to keeping this u23 group together this season and really go and try and win a couple of trophies with them. Build a winning mentality between the players plus we can keep a closer eye on there progression when they are at the club.
Ultimately probably our best answer to fix this would be introducing B teams into the league system but i dont think that will ever happen as the lower leagues in this country are so much stronger than the likes of germany and Spain, or introducing rules at clubs becoming feeder clubs possibly.

Going back to the keeping the group together to build a winning mentality, this has worked for both spain and germany at international level, Germany had a team with Boetang, Neuer, Ozil, Khedira etc all playing at a u21 european tournament years ago, and although they could of walked into the 1st team they put them all together at u21 level so they built an undrstanding and grew as a team together.
Its abit harder to do this at club level though, with transfers in and out of the club it is hard to keep a group together

You can have all the under 23 football you want but it's not 1st team football.

International football is not comparable as a lot of those players were getting first team exposure at club level.

 

[Raino85]

You can have all the under 23 football you want but it's not 1st team football.

International football is not comparable as a lot of those players were getting first team exposure at club level.

I just dont see what the benefit is of sending them down to league 2 when it is a completely different game to what we are playing. I agree it may toughen players up and the one player that has benefited with that is Liam Walsh due to his small size, but muddy heavy pitches and big cloggers hitting 7 shades out of you isnt always the best way of progressing yourself

 

[blueloon]

A year or so i would of agreed with you, but the type of loans we were getting last year for the likes of Walsh, Kenny & Ledson were not good enough standard.
The likes of United, City, Chelsea and even the RS can loan there players out to better sides as they are the big name clubs in football and everyone wants a player associated with these clubs.

Some good points mate, but I disagree on this aspect. Walsh was a 17 years old Scholar when he went out on loan, a bit of a surprise at the time but a great success. He was too young to go higher up and Ledson also seemed to be at the right level too. Kenny was an odd one in that he was doing really well at Wigan, League 1, but did equally well at Oxford League 2. Of the other loans to higher leagues I don't think a single one was a great success , Henen at Fleetwood and Garbutt at Fulham weren't , maybe Grant at Doncaster was a qualified success. This season none who went out on "higher standard" loans have succeeded.

The teams you mentioned all bought in a large amount of young players and as a result their average age of people on loan was higher than ours, they were generally more experienced hence playing at higher levels. Just about every club who took one of our players on loan commented on how well they'd been developed, so I don't think we are disadvantaged in favour of the " big name" clubs.

We'll undoubtedly have more loans in January but it's tricky balancing a player's needs with the clubs they go to needing to have a winning team. For instance I could see Davies or Walsh battling away to help a club out of a relegation scrap , but Dowell needs a different type of loan team to develop at.

The other aspect is that it is perceived that managers are more willing to play youngsters who have played first team football elsewhere as they have had that experience rather than those who've only been at Everton . So the complex balance becomes between playing 1st team football elsewhere and staying at FF and learning from our top class coaches. Tricky.

 

[mightymoyes]

Some good points mate, but I disagree on this aspect. Walsh was a 17 years old Scholar when he went out on loan, a bit of a surprise at the time but a great success. He was too young to go higher up and Ledson also seemed to be at the right level too. Kenny was an odd one in that he was doing really well at Wigan, League 1, but did equally well at Oxford League 2. Of the other loans to higher leagues I don't think a single one was a great success , Henen at Fleetwood and Garbutt at Fulham weren't , maybe Grant at Doncaster was a qualified success. This season none who went out on "higher standard" loans have succeeded.

The teams you mentioned all bought in a large amount of young players and as a result their average age of people on loan was higher than ours, they were generally more experienced hence playing at higher levels. Just about every club who took one of our players on loan commented on how well they'd been developed, so I don't think we are disadvantaged in favour of the " big name" clubs.

We'll undoubtedly have more loans in January but it's tricky balancing a player's needs with the clubs they go to needing to have a winning team. For instance I could see Davies or Walsh battling away to help a club out of a relegation scrap , but Dowell needs a different type of loan team to develop at.

The other aspect is that it is perceived that managers are more willing to play youngsters who have played first team football elsewhere as they have had that experience rather than those who've only been at Everton . So the complex balance becomes between playing 1st team football elsewhere and staying at FF and learning from our top class coaches. Tricky.

ledson has only just broken into the oxford team after leaving us in august(think he was injured for a few weeks) but good to see him finally playing and hopefully he can do a forshaw and come back to the PL. shows how hard it can be for a young player to get game time no matter where they are.

 

[TonyKay2]

Ledson had knee injury before starting a first team game for Oxford. Started the last 3 games, lost 1 and won 2.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Why the hatred towards Unsworth? Do you perceive him being appointed as manager to be 'laughable'?

We hired Koeman ffs...thats laughable.

I don't hate Unsworth, on the contrary, I think he's doing a fine job coaching the kids. But, before taking over the top job at Everton I'd like to see him cut his teeth as first team coach / manager somewhere else.

It's a massive step up and I'd say exactly the same about Ferguson or anyone else ar the club. Having said that I think Unsworth would make a better manager than Ferguson, just not here, yet.

 

[blueloon]

I don't hate Unsworth, on the contrary, I think he's doing a fine job coaching the kids. But, before taking over the top job at Everton I'd like to see him cut his teeth as first team coach / manager somewhere else.

It's a massive step up and I'd say exactly the same about Ferguson or anyone else ar the club. Having said that I think Unsworth would make a better manager than Ferguson, just not here, yet.

Developing managers has parallels with the developing youngsters via loans discussion. When he looks at what happened to his peers like Irvine, David Weir and Alan Stubbs maybe he thinks he should stay here and develop. Managing your team to the top of the PL2 , with joint most goals and best defensive records is no mean feat and looks good on your CV . I can't help but think that he'll get approached from a few clubs before the season ends.

Slightly offtopic, sorry, but noticed today that James Vaughn has scored 7 goals in 13 games for Bury, maybe another like Ledson, Lundstram , Foreshaw etc finding the right level and then moving up.

 

[Timak]

Slightly offtopic, sorry, but noticed today that James Vaughn has scored 7 goals in 13 games for Bury, maybe another like Ledson, Lundstram , Foreshaw etc finding the right level and then moving up.

James in 28 now and has had a decent Championship level career. Injuries as always have been the issue hence moving down the leagues.

 

[mightymoyes]

Developing managers has parallels with the developing youngsters via loans discussion. When he looks at what happened to his peers like Irvine, David Weir and Alan Stubbs maybe he thinks he should stay here and develop. Managing your team to the top of the PL2 , with joint most goals and best defensive records is no mean feat and looks good on your CV . I can't help but think that he'll get approached from a few clubs before the season ends.

Slightly offtopic, sorry, but noticed today that James Vaughn has scored 7 goals in 13 games for Bury, maybe another like Ledson, Lundstram , Foreshaw etc finding the right level and then moving up.

he'd have been an england international if he wasnt the most injury prone player to ever step on a pitch. hes a bit part player at league 1 level unfortunately.

 

[mightymoyes]

back up reserve team playing tonight:
#EFCU23 to face @HerthaBSC: Hewelt, Jones, Foulds, Yarney, Feeney, Baningime, Broadhead, Henen, Evans, Holland, Dyson.
#EFCU23 substitutes: Renshaw, Duffus, Bainbridge, Donohue, Kiersey, Brewster, Bramall.

good to see broadhead get his first run out for the season i think

 

[Ring master]

EVERTON U23S TEAM TO FACE HERTHA BSC 7PM KO

Hewelt, Jones, Foulds, Yarney, Feeney, Baningime, Broadhead, Henen, Evans, Holland, Dyson.

subs Renshaw, Duffus, Bainbridge, Donohue, Kiersey, Brewster, Bramall.


READING V ATLETICO BILBAO B,ALSO 7PM KO

TABLE-

EVERTON 3 POINTS FROM 1 GAME
HERTHA 1 POINT FROM 1 GAME
ATLETICO 1 POINT FROM 1 GAME
READING 0 POINTS FROM 1 GAME

 

[Ring master]

HERTHA lead 1-0,have hit the post and have started better

 

[Woolly Blue]

2-0 down now
Cracking goal from the Krautsl

 

[Woolly Blue]

We're getting battered here, 3-0 down now

Unsworth out
@Zatara