Everton Youth Teams Thread

[The Hibbert Agenda]

Being thrown into the deep end is part of development. You can't keep players in the paddle pool if they need to learn to swim. Hardly the case that our own fans will treat them with more patience and understanding than Tranmere fans.

 

[boris]

These are the players we should be looking to bring back home if they start struggling to break through. Have Wigan got anyone decent left? Seems like they’ve been fully raided. Noticed Carragher’s lad never left.

Yes, there was approx 50 scouts from all over the country watching they're under 16s and 18s at the weekend against Crewe. It's rare to get that many scouts watching games at that level. They're a production line for talent and they've still got a lot of good individuals there.

It's not just the 2 players mentioned, they lost other players last summer to different premier league clubs. The same the year before.

They've got an u18 scouse striker who they've just given a pro deal to that looks very, very good although he'd now come with a 7 figure fee now.

 

[Nymzee]

….as folk know, I’m not a fan of Everton youngsters going on loan. Folk think it’s a La La Land where they go out, play and perform well every week but it can be a huge culture shock that send players backwards.

Warrington has not even played open-age football and now he’s thrust into a situation where every point is vital. Tranmere’s manager won’t protect him, won’t look after his development.

i hope it works out for the lad but he’s being thrown into the deep end.

But you can also argue throwing a player in at the deep end in the PL after only playing kids football can also be a culture shock.

 

[Nymzee]

Yes, there was approx 50 scouts from all over the country watching they're under 16s and 18s at the weekend against Crewe. It's rare to get that many scouts watching games at that level. They're a production line for talent and they've still got a lot of good individuals there.

It's not just the 2 players mentioned, they lost other players last summer to different premier league clubs. The same the year before.

They've got an u18 scouse striker who they've just given a pro deal to that looks very, very good although he'd now come with a 7 figure fee now.

Aye I seem to notice 2-3 every season from their academy moving to bigger sides. Mad how they're all at Wigan first and not us.

 

[Eggs]

But you can also argue throwing a player in at the deep end in the PL after only playing kids football can also be a culture shock.

…oh yes, it can work but it’s important to realise it can also badly misfire.

I suggest our record of sending Academy player's on loan is abysmal. I have only Barkley and Osman as playing more than 50 games for us & both of them had serious injuries at critical stages of their development.

Academy loanees invariably leave the club. The best ones like Onyango & Dobbin go straight in to be involved with the first team.

 

[Nymzee]

…oh yes, it can work but it’s important to realise it can also badly misfire.

I suggest our record of sending Academy player's on loan is abysmal. I have only Barkley and Osman as playing more than 50 games for us & both of them had serious injuries at critical stages of their development.

Academy loanees invariably leave the club. The best ones like Onyango & Dobbin go straight in to be involved with the first team.

I personally believe sending our players on loan hasn't been the issue itself it's where we choose to send them. Gibson and Virginia to Reading? Bad loans. I'd even add I think Warrington to high flying Tranmere isn't all that good.

 

[BigMick]

….as folk know, I’m not a fan of Everton youngsters going on loan. Folk think it’s a La La Land where they go out, play and perform well every week but it can be a huge culture shock that send players backwards.

Warrington has not even played open-age football and now he’s thrust into a situation where every point is vital. Tranmere’s manager won’t protect him, won’t look after his development.

i hope it works out for the lad but he’s being thrown into the deep end.

Yes I agree with you and Warrington is going to have to impress in training to break into their team and then play consistently well to keep his place. That's how it should be. However, I think it's a good and well-timed move for him as he's been playing at a consistent level for the U23s for a while now and the danger is that he'll begin to stagnate and eventually go backwards as a player.

This loan will challenge him, no doubt, and there is a chance he will struggle to hold down a place in their team, and it certainly will be an eye opener for him playing in front of crowds in competitive men's football rather than the cossetted lightweight U23s. The physicality of it is another world. From what I've seen of him I think, with luck, he'll have a decent career in the game, even if not with us.

I personally believe sending our players on loan hasn't been the issue itself it's where we choose to send them. Gibson and Virginia to Reading? Bad loans. I'd even add I think Warrington to high flying Tranmere isn't all that good.

You might be right. You'd hope that there has been a conversation about there being a pathway into the team for him, bearing in mind we can expect no favours from a team pushing for promotion.

What's the alternative though? Send him to a team with nothing to play for where the old pros are going through the motions, or to a struggling team playing with no confidence? Or keep him here where he's comfy? He's no chance of getting near our 1st team squad.

Bring back the Central League!

 

[atrottel]

I personally believe sending our players on loan hasn't been the issue itself it's where we choose to send them. Gibson and Virginia to Reading? Bad loans. I'd even add I think Warrington to high flying Tranmere isn't all that good.

But equally there are not a host of lower league clubs waiting with bated breath to take each prospective Everton trainee. Too often people on this forum (not necessarily you) appear to think that there is a bottomless well of 'lesser clubs' with a magical hole in their squad which desperately needs to be filled and where our teenage left back (or whoever) will fit in perfectly and that there are no other PL (or Championship) clubs touting loans for players in the same position...

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

He’s a big example of how our poor our recruitment at academy level is.

How he and Joe Geldhart, plus a few others, have been allowed to slip out of the NW for basically nothing in recent years is a sad indictment of where our academy recruitment is currently at.

I expect we’ll see it happen again this summer.

Tbf to the club it was impossible to sign Devine given the transfer ban. Agree we shouldve been all over Gelhardt though as well as Weir. But we just sat back. Brands overhaul of recruitment at youth levels for the most part was pathetic

 

[Lanolin]

…oh yes, it can work but it’s important to realise it can also badly misfire.

I suggest our record of sending Academy player's on loan is abysmal. I have only Barkley and Osman as playing more than 50 games for us & both of them had serious injuries at critical stages of their development.

Academy loanees invariably leave the club. The best ones like Onyango & Dobbin go straight in to be involved with the first team.

But how many have played 50 games for us in the same timeframe without a loan? Probably not many more i'd have thought, so it's not really evidence of anything.

I say this all the time but players are different and circumstances are different. Some players will benefit from a loan and some won't, some players are ready to be tested at 17 and some need to be wrapped in cotton wool for a few more years. Some players that are ready for a loan get a move that looks ideal, but for whatever reason it just doesn't work out. It's a tough environment, you have to take the chances that come your way, and if you don't you'll fall by the wayside, it's the same at all clubs.

 

[Nymzee]

You might be right. You'd hope that there has been a conversation about there being a pathway into the team for him, bearing in mind we can expect no favours from a team pushing for promotion.

What's the alternative though? Send him to a team with nothing to play for where the old pros are going through the motions, or to a struggling team playing with no confidence? Or keep him here where he's comfy? He's no chance of getting near our 1st team squad.

Bring back the Central League!

I mean me personally I'd rather they went to a midtable team, with nothing really to play for, where game time would be more guaranteed and he has a chance to shine. Promotion push? Settled team, aint getting in. Relegation battle? Too much on the line, aint getting in.

The very best kids don't need a loan but the ones we're unsure on definitely do. Like Astley, never been a massive fan but we'll never know if he's got it for this league if he's playing U23's games at 21. We could always just sell anyone that's not in the first team squad by like 19 but then we might make some big mistakes for late bloomers.

It's a tricky situation.

 

[Eggs]

But how many have played 50 games for us in the same timeframe without a loan? Probably not many more i'd have thought, so it's not really evidence of anything.

I say this all the time but players are different and circumstances are different. Some players will benefit from a loan and some won't, some players are ready to be tested at 17 and some need to be wrapped in cotton wool for a few more years. Some players that are ready for a loan get a move that looks ideal, but for whatever reason it just doesn't work out. It's a tough environment, you have to take the chances that come your way, and if you don't you'll fall by the wayside, it's the same at all clubs.

…fair point but the only ones who get any real game come in first.

 

[Lanolin]

I mean me personally I'd rather they went to a midtable team, with nothing really to play for, where game time would be more guaranteed and he has a chance to shine. Promotion push? Settled team, aint getting in. Relegation battle? Too much on the line, aint getting in.

The very best kids don't need a loan but the ones we're unsure on definitely do. Like Astley, never been a massive fan but we'll never know if he's got it for this league if he's playing U23's games at 21. We could always just sell anyone that's not in the first team squad by like 19 but then we might make some big mistakes for late bloomers.

It's a tricky situation.

It's tough though because that just narrows the pool of teams we can send them to even more, and obviously at the start of the season we have no real idea of where a team will be in the league anyway. Then there's the question of whether playing in meaningless games when you're guaranteed a start is actually any more beneficial than playing in the under 23s. It depends what the purpose of the loan is in that sense I suppose.

The other thing is, are we unsure on Astley? We as fans don't know what the club's position on players like him is, but that doesn't mean that they don't know themselves. They might believe he's on track to be an Everton player and be happy to keep him with our coaches to learn, or they might have already decided he won't make it here but obviously they still need to put out an under 23 side so are keeping him for that purpose.

Basically yeah, it is a tricky situation, and there isn't a one size fits all solution.

 

[mightymoyes]

….as folk know, I’m not a fan of Everton youngsters going on loan. Folk think it’s a La La Land where they go out, play and perform well every week but it can be a huge culture shock that send players backwards.

Warrington has not even played open-age football and now he’s thrust into a situation where every point is vital. Tranmere’s manager won’t protect him, won’t look after his development.

i hope it works out for the lad but he’s being thrown into the deep end.

i've a similar view on loans to you but personally think its a great move for him, hes nowhere even close to getting a 1st team opportunity despite some people raving after watching 1 game on youtube.
if he smashes it he'll stand more of a chance but if he doesnt do that well hes probably no worse off.

 

[Nymzee]

It's tough though because that just narrows the pool of teams we can send them to even more, and obviously at the start of the season we have no real idea of where a team will be in the league anyway. Then there's the question of whether playing in meaningless games when you're guaranteed a start is actually any more beneficial than playing in the under 23s. It depends what the purpose of the loan is in that sense I suppose.

The other thing is, are we unsure on Astley? We as fans don't know what the club's position on players like him is, but that doesn't mean that they don't know themselves. They might believe he's on track to be an Everton player and be happy to keep him with our coaches to learn, or they might have already decided he won't make it here but obviously they still need to put out an under 23 side so are keeping him for that purpose.

Basically yeah, it is a tricky situation, and there isn't a one size fits all solution.

Well I mean I'm personally not unsure on Astley, I don't think he's PL material but some may disagree. I just think they need to play against men in games where the results actually matter.