Match Thread Everton v Liverpool - Preview, Match Report and MotM Poll

Everton Man of the Match

  • Total voters
    877
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

catcherintherye said:
That is a good way of looking at things. I mean it's worth noting 67 points gets you 3rd last season. At times 73/4 would have confortably got you 2nd.

I think the league will be a lot more open this season and have said so for some time. Liverpool and City have come back to the pack. How far? It's a worthwhile question and harder to predict but they are coming back. United, Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal all look quite strong in their own way, but also vulnerable. Leicester, Wolves and ourselves will also be close. I also quite like the look of Palace, Brighton, Villa, West Ham and Southampton who will take points off teams. Essentially in a roundabout way I think the league will be closer from 1st to 10th.

As for us. All we can keep doing is winning games. Sides who win their first 5 league games tend not to finish lower than 4th and often finish 1st. It's a good detirminant. We are in good company if we can do that. We would have also won at Spurs and beaten last seasons champions, both major markers. I'm not saying we go on and win it, but we are very much in the hunt. I mean in the last 50 years or so we've won our first 4 league games I think on 3 occasions. 1962, 1969 and 1977. We finished 1st, 1st and 4th. It gives you an idea of the grouping we are in.

It's a case of one game at a time for us, and see where we are. In all honesty mate, if we transport time back to 1984, and it's before that Liverpool or United game, if someone had said "if we win at Anfield we can win the thing" you probably get a similar response. A caution, a conservatism and it's understandable. However winning games in the way we are, developing balance and that winning feeling is worth an awful lot. We also have a manager at the helm who knows what he's doing.

I won't be going on and on about it, as frankly the players will not need the pressure. I like us going under the radar, a bit like Leicester did in 2016/17 or even what we did in 2004 to get 4th. I'm happy just winning in the background for now.
Click to expand...

Actually mate, I think if (big if) we play like the we have done in these first 7 matches and we comfortably beat Liverpool, then there will definitely be some shouts of title challengers, to be fair. Especially given our easier schedule.

I suppose my main point is that for me it would only be consolidating us as Champions League contenders. If we get say 12/13 matches in and we are right up there and holding steady, then I'll start to dream.
 
Hickson9 said:
Actually mate, I think if (big if) we play like the we have done in these first 7 matches and we comfortably beat Liverpool, then there will definitely be some shouts of title challengers, to be fair. Especially given our easier schedule.

I suppose my main point is that for me it would only be consolidating us as Champions League contenders. If we get say 12/13 matches in and we are right up there and holding steady, then I'll start to dream.
Click to expand...

Here's a question then, how many straight league games would we have to win for you to think we are title challengers?
 
2 reasons why guys like Pep, Klopp, and even Mourinho fall off

1. They are strictly one dimensional. They are too rigid to their philosophy and place the philosophy above anything else. They end up getting figured out by the opposition and anyone can beat you when you are only good at 1 thing and they figure out that 1 thing.

2. After years of doing the same thing, but this time not yielding results, your own players stop buying into your message. You can keep standing there and preaching, but it won't be the same. The doubt will set in not only in themselves, but if what you are preaching actually works. They get fatigued and lose faith on the manager and his message.

They might very well still win the league, but juggernauts they are not. We should come into this game and try to punch them in the mouth
 

catcherintherye said:
Well they played their best team throughout (which I found odd). I can understand the foot came off the gas though. However Chelsea, Madrid and Watford were all before lockdown and before they won the league. Then you look at the defeats to Arsenal twice so far this season, or Leeds scoring 3 on the opening day etc and it can't all be put down to taking their eye off the abll in lockdown. In fact the only game that fits that criteria is the City game, and in honesty of all the games in question, that one woud have been the one they least wanted to get hammered in.

I mean another point might be, once players step off the treadmill a bit, is it easy to just slip back into the same pace as before? I'd suggest it is pretty difficult.

There was some luck for Villa though I am inclined to agree with Klopp, it is bad defending as much asbad luck. It is defending that is not committed enough, and a team allowing too many shots on goal, and too many attacks. They were unlucky against Villa in that regard, but have been lucky in other games. It's worth adding as well, I watched the last 20 minutes or so, and Villa missed 2 clear 1 on 1's and an open goal. They then seemed to just give up trying to score. I don't think 7 really flattered Villa who could have had more.

Milner and Henderson help, particularly Henderson. Milner must be nearly 35 though and I'm really not convinced he's going to have the legs to resolve this problem. As a starting point they need to get Fabinho, Henderson and Wijnaldum playing together in midfield. That ought to be the priority. Forget Thiago, that is their best midfield 3, particularly in terms of providing protection.

As a final aside, I dont think this means they stop winning games. City got 81 points last season having also been "found out" a bit. Liverpool could easily win the leagye being more inconsistent, and to my mind remain favourites to do so. However the all conquering manner in which they did it has gone. If they persist with the high line, they are going to be involved in a number if games that become something of a lottery.
Click to expand...
I can't believe I'm defending Liverpool here, but I think you're wrong on this one Catcher. The idea that Liverpool have been on the decline is very dangerous and could very easily lead to complacency. The Watford loss was their first in the League and came in March. Conceding 3 against Chelsea came at the end of the season in a game they still won. The two losses against Arsenal were actually a draw in the Charity shield and a league cup game in which they fielded their youth team. Atletico was the one big loss in there for me, and of course last weekend against Villa.

I agree that Liverpool's defence have looked very suspect this season with their high line against both Leeds and Villa. But I but that down partly to very good tactics and play from the opposition, but also poor pressing that left them exposed and I put that down to the midfield combination they played. If they play the same way and also bring in Thiago, I think they'll be playing into our hands (if we have a full team out). But, as I said, I think they'll change it because they wont want to lose this one.

I think bringing in Thiago may be a bit of a mistake as he is a bit of a Coutinho type player. Klopp will want to fit him in the team but it will take away from their pressing capabilities.

We'll see how he sets up against us. as I said, I think he'll either bring back the pressers in midfield, or will go more cautious as regards his defensive line, which will make them less of a threat up top.

Either way I think we'll sit back, soak up and break in numbers when we get the opportunity. Think it will be a close game.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
I can't believe I'm defending Liverpool here, but I think you're wrong on this one Catcher. The idea that Liverpool have been on the decline is very dangerous and could very easily lead to complacency. The Watford loss was their first in the League and came in March. Conceding 3 against Chelsea came at the end of the season in a game they still won. The two losses against Arsenal were actually a draw in the Charity shield and a league cup game in which they fielded their youth team. Atletico was the one big loss in there for me, and of course last weekend against Villa.

I agree that Liverpool's defence have looked very suspect this season with their high line against both Leeds and Villa. But I but that down partly to very good tactics and play from the opposition, but also poor pressing that left them exposed and I put that down to the midfield combination they played. If they play the same way and also bring in Thiago, I think they'll be playing into our hands (if we have a full team out). But, as I said, I think they'll change it because they wont want to lose this one.

I think bringing in Thiago may be a bit of a mistake as he is a bit of a Coutinho type player. Klopp will want to fit him in the team but it will take away from their pressing capabilities.

We'll see how he sets up against us. as I said, I think he'll either bring back the pressers in midfield, or will go more cautious as regards his defensive line, which will make them less of a threat up top.

Either way I think we'll sit back, soak up and break in numbers when we get the opportunity. Think it will be a close game.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'd use the word "decline" in a long term way or to mean they are suddenly rubbish. Thats not the case=. However post Watford they have lost a lot of games and conceded a lot of goals (as well as winning some games too). This Liverpool side doesn't feel the 100+ point juggernaut it has been over the last couple of seasons. It's still better than we are, but the gap is closing.
 
number4. said:
this is the point, 3 points massive for us, but you feel dropping a points for them could be absolutely devastating - that said 33 games to go and all that
Click to expand...

I mean in all honesty on the surface level, dropping points twice would not be a nightmare. For them and City it has been a challenging start, and we are in a phase where sides will be dropping points, as opposed to havig run away winners.

It's the phsycological factor that you can never really account for. It would be a 2nd defeat in a row in the league and a 3rd in all comps. For a group of players not used to losing, that starts to open up questions and challenges.
 

UptheTofees said:
2 reasons why guys like Pep, Klopp, and even Mourinho fall off

1. They are strictly one dimensional. They are too rigid to their philosophy and place the philosophy above anything else. They end up getting figured out by the opposition and anyone can beat you when you are only good at 1 thing and they figure out that 1 thing.

2. After years of doing the same thing, but this time not yielding results, your own players stop buying into your message. You can keep standing there and preaching, but it won't be the same. The doubt will set in not only in themselves, but if what you are preaching actually works. They get fatigued and lose faith on the manager and his message.

They might very well still win the league, but juggernauts they are not. We should come into this game and try to punch them in the mouth
Click to expand...

Probably the best line that will be written on the forum today! lol lol lol
 
catcherintherye said:
That makes sense and I agree, I suppose just for curioisity's sake it's interesting to know how many straight wins we would need. 8 seems a worthwhile number.
Click to expand...
Its the leicester approach for me,
Enjoy while it lasts, expect it to end, start believing when it's further down the line
Although I've been saying for years our ambition should be to win everything every year,
I'm of the opinion that the higher you aim, the closer you come..
Teams going into games looking for draws tend to lose just as often as teams aiming to win, but with more upside
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.

Register

Shop

Back
Top