Aye, it wouldn't surprise me to see he and Pennington end up in the PL eventually, but I can see them doing so via the Duffy/Ruddy route rather than the Everton route.
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Aye, it wouldn't surprise me to see he and Pennington end up in the PL eventually, but I can see them doing so via the Duffy/Ruddy route rather than the Everton route.
..you’re probably right Bruce, especially given their ages. The only slight doubt are reports I heard that Silva was very impressed with Williams in pre-season. He would need to leapfrog the likes of Beningame and Davies to have a future here.
It pains me to say much of this as I am a bit advocate for us blooding young (and particularly local) players but I do think the situation has changed radically since the summer.
We have added 6 players who are better than existing squad members. While I don't think we will necessarily see equivalent windows (it's a high number of players to bring in and 100% will not be sustainable) it's clear each year that the quality of the squad will be ratcheted up. I do wonder if that subsequent improvement in the squad will lead to young players ultimately moving on. I also wonder if that process may have already happened for lads like Williams.
In one way it is very harsh on said young players but the flip of it is that for many of younger players they have had 50+ appearances to make their mark, and if they haven't done that at that point there's not a lot more that can be done. It's more opportunities than they would get at any of the other top 6/7 teams.
..absolutely. It’s about bringing through the best. If the best are local lads (Tom Davies) then all good and well, but the purchase of young, promising players is proving a productive strategy (Stones, Holgate, DCL, Lookman et al).
I think we will see a return to the quality not quantity approach with young players. It will take a very special player to break through.
It's not like young players aren't being given opportunities, look at Richarlinson at 21, but he is very special. Thats the bar that will need to be reached for our young players.
It will seem harsh. As probably for most of them they will see they have made big strides, but are probably further away from the first team than 12 months ago. Football like life is about moments though, you have a window of opportunity to take your chance. I do worry for some of them that effectively their window of opportunity has likely already shut and it's a matter of time until we buy in more quality players?
In a way I hope not. But then over the next 2 windows if we can add lads like Ndombele, Barbosa and other young players I won't complain. In the end we want Everton to build a successful team.
I think your last sentence is the crux of it re our young players. When we were struggling toget into mid table then Davies, Kenny, Holgate , Dowell we’re appearing and getting game time. Now we have a decent team who should finish top 7 as a minimum they are displaced by experienced internationals. Our young players we have in and around the squad are finding it harder to get starts, so it’s even harder for those on loan.
As a slight aside, I had a quick scan of Championship teams and I saw a number of young ex players starting or coming on, Jordan Thorniley, Lundstram , Ledson, , Bidwell, Jutkiewicz, probably others. They highlight the problem with our youngsters, decent players but unlikely to make it at the top level of the PL, so we buy in.
messymascot
Player Valuation: £35m
I think Williams is the better of the 3 but he has had injuries or been out on loan at the wrong time. If he had been here last season i think he would now be where Davies is on the bench. He can play as both a 6 and an 8 where as the other 2 would only be comfortable in one position. I hope he's another Osman gets a chance a little later but takes it. We need younsters to see there is a chance if you work hard.
..different times and a different type of player, but the point about Osman is very well made. A delayed, injury ravaged development but successful loan spells meant he came through later than most.
messymascot
Player Valuation: £35m
I just think he could be an ideal 4th choice. Your right its different now as fans want instant success but there is a lot to be said for having 4 or 5 local lads in the squad. I like you think there is something about him suppose time will tell.
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
I think as sad as it is about these youngsters not coming through, like richarlison as an example, he's 21 and in the Brazil squad whereas our academy guys are older and in the championship playing every now and then.
It is annoying that we keep getting these highly talented players like Walsh, ledson, green etc coming through and they never actually get there. The annoying thing also for me is we never actually get good value for them. You see players like forshaw, ruddy and Duffy who go on to be premier league players but we never get Premier league money for them and that's mainly because we let them linger here for too long.
We're giving these players the best opportunity to succeed here but maybe we're taking too long. You see a player like Dowell doing what he did last season in the championship, if he was at City or chelsea they'd be getting £10m or so last summer most probably. We keep him around thinking maybe he could make it here, his value will be about £2m this summer now and he was never going to displace the players above him imo.
He will eventually come back and play in the prem for someone else imo but we won't be getting the fee for the talent he is. We'll get a fee for a 23 year old who's played one season in the championship and not done anything in a year.
It is annoying that we keep getting these highly talented players like Walsh, ledson, green etc coming through and they never actually get there. The annoying thing also for me is we never actually get good value for them. You see players like forshaw, ruddy and Duffy who go on to be premier league players but we never get Premier league money for them and that's mainly because we let them linger here for too long.
We're giving these players the best opportunity to succeed here but maybe we're taking too long. You see a player like Dowell doing what he did last season in the championship, if he was at City or chelsea they'd be getting £10m or so last summer most probably. We keep him around thinking maybe he could make it here, his value will be about £2m this summer now and he was never going to displace the players above him imo.
He will eventually come back and play in the prem for someone else imo but we won't be getting the fee for the talent he is. We'll get a fee for a 23 year old who's played one season in the championship and not done anything in a year.
It'll be interesting to see what happens with Holgate, as he seems 4th choice at the moment in a position where rotation doesn't happen as often as other positions. It's a shame as he was looking good last season, but you struggle to see where he'll get game time at the moment. The likes of DCL and Lookman are different as they are attackers who tend to get more opportunities from the bench. Kenny will be in a similar position.
messymascot
Player Valuation: £35m
I would loan Holgate out as we dont have enough games for him to get a chance and for rest of this season we have Jagielka who we can use as 4th choice.
..the aspiration is always to bring in better than we have and a change of Manager always involves a different opinion of certain individuals. Holgate has slipped down the pecking order and it’s hard to see him leapfrogging those ahead of him. Kenny is a bit different in that he’s Coleman’s back-up.
Historically though, full back hasn't been a position that has seen much rotation. Both Baines and Coleman played pretty much every game they weren't injured for, and it's pretty rare for a full back to come off the bench. It all adds up to a lack of game time for them at a key stage in their development. It always makes me a bit uneasy when we have loan deals like the one for Zouma where there doesn't appear to be an option to buy at the end. We shouldn't be developing other clubs players for them, especially if they're not first choice, as Zouma appears not to be.
...you’re right aboutsubstitutions but both Coleman and Baines have suffered lengthy injuries in recent seasons. Add to that the possibility of suspension. We need back-up and these lads are highly paid.
When it comes to loaning the likes of Gomes and Zouma it generally means they are surplus to requirements at their parent club.
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