Everton 'B' Team

[witchdoc187]

there will be no travelling support which will affect gates in the lower divisions. If you cant get promoted then whats the point trying? Sounds absolutely dreadful to me. Half- arsed players runing around a pitch in front of no fans for no real reason other than to get some experience. Ship them out on loan.

 

[Jacko93]

Just as a measure, how many people here will genuinely travel to watch Everton B v Nuneaton?

 

[Pabbers]

We are building an extension to Finch Farm which will alow the youngsters to live onsite.
This follows the Barca model of getting young players spend more time developing their skill
because they can spend longer hours on the pitch and less time playing games.
I heard Arsene Wenger say yesterday that young players should be practising more
and playing less games...which is what I thought RM was in favour of as well.
If you put players into a competitive league ,there will be a pressure to win
and I feel that may result in players spending less time in a non pressure situation developing their skills.

We have already seen this season there is already a perfectly good loan mechanism which allows young players
to go out on loan when it is felt they are ready.

I think the idea of the digs, is for the 16 - 19 year olds, to train 3 x 2 hours a day. Th idea is you need 10,000 hours of elite coaching, by a certain age, that age bieng aound 21 / 22 i think.

So once they have met this target, and had top level coaching, the next step would be the right competative football, reserve football just does not give enough, and some players stagnante. The B league, to me, sounds similar to rassie or Under 21 footy.

This is why I beleive the loan system we currently have is decent, and we need to work on that, to benifit the smaller teams, my view has been a part-ownership, or a reward system for the smaller club. I like the system they use in Italy, so maybe we could work a similar rule into what we currently do with the loan system.

 

[Jacko93]

Oh, and where would they play? Goodison? Sounds like a nightmare for matchdays that you know. Can Liverpool B play at home the same time as Everton B? United/City? Or would this be the beginning of fairly standard Friday night matches in one league or the other?

 

[EY.]

Just as a measure, how many people here will genuinely travel to watch Everton B v Nuneaton?

If the first team wasnt playing i would, if the first team wernt playing id go every home & away with the b team like i do with the first team tbh because theres new grounds to go to

 

[Jacko93]

The first group of Lads coming through at the start get experience at Conference level. After maybe 6 years and the possiblity of a number of promotions, then they or their follow-ons get chance of Championship. How it is now, they can get premiership or Championship exp. when they need it, straight away.

The problem with of youngster under-development is that the larger clubs buy the players early, hold on to them and have little in the way of encouragement to bring them through.

If, for example, Loans from Premeirship clubs were not allowed after the age of 21, and the squads were limited to size (as they are) then I believe it would force players to potentially further their careers elsewhere. Also, a wage cap for U21's, where each player is on a standard 'apprenticeship' wage. This would mean that the decision on their footballing future is made purely on prospect and playing time.

If this model was so successful in developing players in Spain, why have we got Deulofeu?

 

[Woolly Blue]

Oh, and where would they play? Goodison? Sounds like a nightmare for matchdays that you know. Can Liverpool B play at home the same time as Everton B? United/City? Or would this be the beginning of fairly standard Friday night matches in one league or the other?

At a guess, Southport, same as most of the U21 games. It holds ~6000, it's big enough.

 

[Zaschrona]

As an Evertonian I love the idea, as it will give our youngsters more chances to play and more chances to see Everton. But it kills Football League, I would prefer another system.

 

[Pabbers]

Accrington Stanley are proposing launching their own B team, and applying for them to join the Premier League...Ha ha ha!

 

[Jacko93]

At a guess, Southport, same as most of the U21 games. It holds ~6000, it's big enough.

Southport could conceivably be in the same league?

I just think its an awful idea. All the money that they propose they bribe the teams with, they should use to lower the cost of coaching badges, and put much of it towards improving facilities.

I remember going to Holland as a school kid and playing in tournaments there, the level in facilities was a world apart from what we have here. they were top class pitches, absolutely top drawer, and many of these were school pitches. In the schools, the football team coaches were trained football coaches, in my first years at school, it was Chalky balls, who seemingly lacked qualifications in his chosen subject of Geography, never mind FA standards of coaching. Bad habits were being taught at school and many were carried forward onto weekend football pitches. The coaching was that poor a level that I refused to be selected after a short while.

 

[njligernj]

If this model was so successful in developing players in Spain, why have we got Deulofeu?

Because he's too good for their B but not good enough for their A. He is an exception.

Anyway ... I am torn. Can see both sides. I think most people agree we could be doing something better. Should we be so worried about killing off something which doesn't seem to be working in terms of generating and nurturing talent to a sufficient level?

OR, as some books/people have suggested, is England's place in world football about right considering population and the primary measure of success being an insanely small sample size of one tournament in a knock-out format held once every four years (plus Euros I guess)? Argentina haven't won in almost 30 years but still seem to be able to produce a player or two.

Do think there are probably some better alternatives to try first but also worry that people just argue over things, there is no plan which will suit everyone, so then we just do nothing and doing something (even if it isn't a perfect plan) might be better than nothing.

Is this better than the FA spending 50m-100m to train hundreds of British coaches in the latest and best training methods and techniques from all over the world and then setting them loose to coach up young players for the next few decades?

 

[Jacko93]

Because he's too good for their B but not good enough for their A. He is an exception.

Anyway ... I am torn. Can see both sides. I think most people agree we could be doing something better. Should we be so worried about killing off something which doesn't seem to be working in terms of generating and nurturing talent to a sufficient level?

OR, as some books/people have suggested, is England's place in world football about right considering population and the primary measure of success being an insanely small sample size of one tournament in a knock-out format held once every four years (plus Euros I guess)? Argentina haven't won in almost 30 years but still seem to be able to produce a player or two.

Do think there are probably some better alternatives to try first but also worry that people just argue over things, there is no plan which will suit everyone, so then we just do nothing and doing something (even if it isn't a perfect plan) might be better than nothing.

Is this better than the FA spending 50m-100m to train hundreds of British coaches in the latest and best training methods and techniques from all over the world and then setting them loose to coach up young players for the next few decades?

Do dyou mean what I think you mean here? Should we be arsed about the lower leagues?

 

[njligernj]

Do dyou mean what I think you mean here? Should we be arsed about the lower leagues?

I understand it's proper football fan group-think to value the grass-roots and embrace the idea unquestioningly that everything they did a hundred plus years ago was 100% correct and we should never countenance the notion of changing anything ever.

I'm not saying this is the case, just asking a hypothetical: If the lower league system doesn't do as good a job at developing talent as a B team system then why are we so keen to protect it above all else? Is it right to force players into a set-up which stifles their development just because of some romantic notion of the way things should be done?

The answer might well be that the lower leagues as it currently exists is the best way to go. I'm 100% open to that. However the notion that nobody should dare suggest any alternatives and if they do they are trying to "destroy the heart of football" or whatever is not a productive way to conduct a conversation about an issue.

 

[riddick]

what about the players that are too good/not good enough for that level? You have Duffy who is solid in the Championship. What about Ledson or Garbutt who would be better suited to League 1(this is a hypothetical situation, i know Ledson is boss)? Isnt one of the fears of football that you cant expose them too fast too soon or you might wreck their confidence?

 

[Jacko93]

I understand it's proper football fan group-think to value the grass-roots and embrace the idea unquestioningly that everything they did a hundred plus years ago was 100% correct and we should never countenance the notion of changing anything ever.

I'm not saying this is the case, just asking a hypothetical: If the lower league system doesn't do as good a job at developing talent as a B team system then why are we so keen to protect it above all else? Is it right to force players into a set-up which stifles their development just because of some romantic notion of the way things should be done?

The answer might well be that the lower leagues as it currently exists is the best way to go. I'm 100% open to that. However the notion that nobody should dare suggest any alternatives and if they do they are trying to "destroy the heart of football" or whatever is not a productive way to conduct a conversation about an issue.

What I mean is, what makes the club that we support more important than a club that a lower league fan supports? What makes international football more important than all else? Will you love Everton more if England win the World Cup? Will you be less of an Everton fan if the premier league is only the fourth best league in Europe?

I will stick my neck out and say that there are southport fans out there who are more fervent in their support than some Evertonians, or than that of many prem teams, it is the elitist idea that only those at the top are deserving that will destroy OUR game. People have the argument that we need to ensure that the very best if our potential talent is realised..... Does that also mean that if your not one of the 0.5% you can forget about it.

Trouble is, if you rip out the heart of the 72 other teams In the pyramid, then there will be no third tier anyway so it becomes a self perpetuating issue. The only thing that will change is maybe 70/75% of the supporting public have nothing left to support.