Everton 'B' Team

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barneygumble said:
I think it's a great idea to be honest, i mean if you look at the success of it in France and Germany and in particular, Spain, you can see the clear benefits.
I mean if you look at the Segunda division in Spain, in the last 10 years, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Málaga, Sevilla and Villarreal have had teams competing in the second division, with Barcelona doing particularly well. I can understand why supporters of lower league teams may be concerned, as well, considering imagine if Fulham 'B' got promoted to 'League 2 South' in place of Pompey, who would take fans everywhere, it's a loss of revenue. But on the flip side, i mean the players have to come through somewhere, and where better than in competitive environment, where they can thrive, and become far better players, it wouldn't change much imo, and i think it's long overdue.
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Apparently it really hasn't been much of a success in Germany. Been following Rafael Honigstein on Twitter while this has been going on today and he is really against it. He also posted this article by Uli Hesse which outlines ways in which it isn't working for a lot of the German clubs. For some it costs too much to maintain. For others the quality of the leagues they play in just isn't high enough to develop talent leading teams to buying players and loaning them out rather than developing youth.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/_/name/bundesliga/id/647?cc=5739

As for Spain, it is slightly different to what we would get. Our B teams wouldn't be eligible for the Championship so League 2 at best. We send our good youngsters mainly to the Championship, not lower.

Also, what happens if in League 2 the top teams at the end of the season are 5 or 6 'B' teams (which is very feasible). You then get teams that have finished 7th,8th and lower getting promoted.
 
The whole point behind this is to get more English players at the top clubs therefore leading to a better national team.

What if it fails and we're still rubbish?

More change.

There's soooo many better solutions than this.

It's awful.
 
Wizard said:
Apparently it really hasn't been much of a success in Germany. Been following Rafael Honigstein on Twitter while this has been going on today and he is really against it. He also posted this article by Uli Hesse which outlines ways in which it isn't working for a lot of the German clubs. For some it costs too much to maintain. For others the quality of the leagues they play in just isn't high enough to develop talent leading teams to buying players and loaning them out rather than developing youth.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/_/name/bundesliga/id/647?cc=5739

As for Spain, it is slightly different to what we would get. Our B teams wouldn't be eligible for the Championship so League 2 at best. We send our good youngsters mainly to the Championship, not lower.

Also, what happens if in League 2 the top teams at the end of the season are 5 or 6 'B' teams (which is very feasible). You then get teams that have finished 7th,8th and lower getting promoted.
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That is the way it works. It's okay for teams to finish 6th and go up? I think it's a good competition, and if they win League two good on them.

Barcelona B are third in Segunda, so 7th place is gonna get a place. I think it's a good idea personally. The players will develop more competitvely than against a pansy reserve match for me.
 

There's far too many clubs in the English leagues anyway, adding more would bound to kill a few off, which is far more important than the national team.

What in the hell does Greg Dyke know about football anyway?
 
The real fix is multifold, this is just ignoring the real problems (and let's be fair, no fix will make England a perennial powerhouse - they never have been):
  1. Improve grassroots coaching and infrastructure - give kids a place to go play footie after school
  2. Implement Absolute Squad limits as well as limits on number of kids in the Academy - I.E. Loans count against your limit. Totally off the top of my head (24 senior squad, 4 reserve places, 4 for loans on top. Then some academy limits).
  3. For above you would only be able to swap reserve places during transfer windows or for injury (think of reserve as injured reserve + players that have almost broke through).
  4. Convince the youth to go on loan to foreign leagues - maybe even go play there if they're not getting a game!
  5. Eliminate home-grown rules
I think 1 and 2 are the most vital. The biggest problem in England is that teams like Chelsea and City buy any player that looks like they may have a good future and they end up sitting on the bench and stalling their development. This is especially true of highly rated English talent because of the home grown rules.

So City see a kid like Barkley and think - he could be something and he's English! So they buy him to comply with the home grown rules. Then, he's not quite good enough to get into the first team (Barkley is, bear with me), so he sits on the bench from years 20-23. Then he ends up getting sold to Villa after City see another gem. Barkley and the English national team are much better served if he stays at Everton. Everton would rather not sell him...but if a silly big comes in, it's hard to resist. Eliminate the home grown rules and City no longer have any desire to spend silly money until Barkley is 100% ready for their first team.

City have the money, and squad size is no limit to them. So home grown rules tie in with no squad limits to absolutely ruin high-potential kids between the ages of 19-22. If we limit squads, and remove their impetus for wanting English players, then Barkley never gets sold and develops naturally. Think of how many young English players that would have helped?
 
RaleighBlue said:
The real fix is multifold, this is just ignoring the real problems (and let's be fair, no fix will make England a perennial powerhouse - they never have been):
  1. Improve grassroots coaching and infrastructure - give kids a place to go play footie after school
  2. Implement Absolute Squad limits as well as limits on number of kids in the Academy - I.E. Loans count against your limit. Totally off the top of my head (24 senior squad, 4 reserve places, 4 for loans on top. Then some academy limits).
  3. For above you would only be able to swap reserve places during transfer windows or for injury (think of reserve as injured reserve + players that have almost broke through).
  4. Convince the youth to go on loan to foreign leagues - maybe even go play there if they're not getting a game!
  5. Eliminate home-grown rules
I think 1 and 2 are the most vital. The biggest problem in England is that teams like Chelsea and City buy any player that looks like they may have a good future and they end up sitting on the bench and stalling their development. This is especially true of highly rated English talent because of the home grown rules.

So City see a kid like Barkley and think - he could be something and he's English! So they buy him to comply with the home grown rules. Then, he's not quite good enough to get into the first team (Barkley is, bear with me), so he sits on the bench from years 20-23. Then he ends up getting sold to Villa after City see another gem. Barkley and the English national team are much better served if he stays at Everton. Everton would rather not sell him...but if a silly big comes in, it's hard to resist. Eliminate the home grown rules and City no longer have any desire to spend silly money until Barkley is 100% ready for their first team.

City have the money, and squad size is no limit to them. So home grown rules tie in with no squad limits to absolutely ruin high-potential kids between the ages of 19-22. If we limit squads, and remove their impetus for wanting English players, then Barkley never gets sold and develops naturally. Think of how many young English players that would have helped?
Click to expand...

Some excellent points there mate. Never really thought of how much the home grown/English player rule is probably having an adverse affect in reality.

The richest buy the better players who WOULD be playing week in week out and leave them sat on the bench or worse! The player stalls and falls off the radar...

Originally thought the "b" team thing was a good idea without really thinking much into it and the bad points. But as many of these bad points us simple football fans have pointed out in this thread alone have proved this is far from an ideal solution.

IMO there's plenty of opirtunity for these players to go out and play on loan with other clubs. This is the route that needs to be explored as in the best way to help the players, the clubs and the small clubs who are benefiting. Maybe big clubs should be tied to smaller clubs in there region where they help with loaning players etc..
 
Awful idea.
It will allow the super wealthy clubs to stockpile the best young talent into their "B" teams and draw on them as they are ready. Lower league clubs and most continental clubs will not be able to match the terms and conditions offered by these clubs.
It will simply cement the super wealthy clubs at footballs top table for the foreseeable future.
 

Being a Southport lad, I think it's a great idea. The reserves / unders get plenty of games at Haig Ave so more Everton against better teams has too be good.
 
Ridiculous idea.

What's wrong with current set up? U18s and U21s (reserves) and the players bordering the first team on loan to lower leagues. Benefits us and the lower leagues.
 
As someone asked Greg Dyke today...As a Brentford supporter, how would you feel if you'd been pipped to protion by Chelsea B ? Its a horrendous self serving idea in favour of the big clubs. Apparently, its status will be just after Div 2, before the Conference. So this season, Luton would not have got their league placing back.
 
...I think it says it all that the major teams with deep pockets and large squads are in favour. We have 16 year olds propping up U18 and U21 team, we don't have a lot of seniors in reserve so I think it would be a financial and resource strain on a club like ours. They are calling it a 5th sdivision, so I presume it wouldn't be geographically split. Might sound good, but in reality perhaps a glorified Central League.
 
Think the cons are greater than the pros. I would rather loan players out, let them experience all sorts of styles and mature outside of their comfort zone. If anything like this were to be implemented there would need to be serious restrictions on what players can play to prevent expensive stockpiles of talent.
 

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