peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
I think you just proved my point really........
Current Affairs EU In or Out
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I think you just proved my point really........
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Apparently there was an idea floated years ago about inviting the UK to be a part of NAFTA. It seems as though both Trump and Canada may want to update the current model and also invite the UK to join.......just speculation at the moment.......
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
India wants us to give more visas for students and people who may need to work here. They do not want us to accept unchecked immigration from India. I am wholly in favour of further developing our links with India, a country that has so much potential.........
So you'd be happy with 1 million immigrants a year if they were all studying and employed?
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
We could almost certainly not accommodate the numbers you use, but if there was an increase that we could accommodate and we chose to do so, then yes......
orchard
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So the current Government are shocking. It doesn't follow that we should just ignore a democratic referendum, especially without addressing the underlying issues that caused the outer's to vote as they did, especially as a major reason was precisely this attitude from the short-term beneficiaries of the status quo.
If anything, your argument provides sufficient reason to replace the current Government and/or have some sort of cross-party control over brexit.
If anything, your argument provides sufficient reason to replace the current Government and/or have some sort of cross-party control over brexit.
How do you determine how many can be accommodated?
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Somehow I managed to post this in the England Scotland game thread.....although tbf it fits either way.....
A good article in the euobserver, a media outlet supporting the EU......once you get past the usual sneering it's quite a good read......
Trump’s 'Brexit plus' will strengthen May’s hand
LONDON, 11. NOV, 16:15
The similarities between watching Donald Trump’s victory and Britain’s vote to leave the EU in June were eerie.
An unpopular establishment candidate defeated by loudmouthed, scare-mongering populist - check. A revived nationalism and anger among the economically dispossessed - check.
Even the pattern of election night was the same, as the pundits’ confidence in the accuracy of the exit polls gradually unravelled as Hillary Clinton’s so-called ‘firewall’ of safe states were either lost or too-close-to-call.
In both upsets voters blindsided the opinion pollsters. Timid Trump supporters, like the silent Brexiteers of June, were missed by the polls only to vote in their millions.
Despite all the warning signs, neither result was supposed to happen.
It is Brexit Mark II.
The stark divide
The young and the university educated voted by large majorities for Mrs Clinton, just as in Britain they voted for EU membership.
The victims of globalisation, rightly aggrieved at having been ignored by the Democrat and Republican establishment alike, for a generation, voted for the anti-politics insurgent.
The ‘rust-belt’ states of Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, and their white, blue-collar Americans - natural Democrats - backed Trump.
Of the various common dynamics at play, only the "whitelash" theory doesn’t translate quite so well to the June referendum.
While African-American and Hispanic voters overwhelming backed Clinton, Britain’s Asian and African communities actually tended to lean towards Brexit, in large part because of complaints that it was harder for them to get jobs and visas to the UK than migrants from eastern Europe.
It is no coincidence that Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, and Marine Le Pen, the leader of France’s National Front, were among the first foreign politicians to congratulate him.
In particular, Farage who campaigned with Trump, speaking for him at the Republican National Convention, is now hoping Donald will give him a job.
On Friday (11 November) he joked that “I would quite like to be his ambassador to the European Union.” It’s not such an outlandish idea.
Yet Farage is not the only extremely pleased British right-winger.
UK possible big winner
Trump’s election is a huge fillip to those in the UK who campaigned for Brexit.
He is openly hostile towards the EU and, having backed the Brexit vote, warned that his presidency would offer "Brexit plus, plus, plus."
His antipathy to the trade deals with the Pacific countries and the EU also means that TTIP is now as dead as a dodo, while Britain would be ‘at the front of the queue’ to negotiate a trade deal with the US.
Suddenly the UK has more leverage in international trade talks and, perhaps, a slightly stronger hand to play in negotiations that will follow the triggering of Article 50 next March.
It is striking to compare the glum post-election reactions of Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande with that of Boris Johnson, Theresa May’s foreign minister and jester-in-chief, who on Thursday called on "fellow Europeans to snap out of this doom and gloom and whinge-a-rama."
Lord Marland, David Cameron’s former trade envoy, thinks that a UK-US economic partnership would be an easy win for both May and Trump.
“Both countries will be looking for quick-fix partners post these events and I have no doubt that Trump, whose mother was born in Scotland ... will be looking very favourably on economic relationships with the UK,” he said on Friday.
Uncertainty is certain
There is an argument that Theresa May and her Brexit ministers are getting over excited about making friends with the new boy. But Trump’s victory vindicates their own campaign strategy.
Barack Obama was no more interested in Britain than he was in the rest of Europe.
It is no surprise to hear fellow Brexit campaigner Iain Duncan Smith enthusing about the prospect of rebuilding the so-called ‘special relationship’ which has been "in the freezer now for about eight years".
If Trump’s election potentially alters the terms of Britain’s exit from the EU, it also poses a wider and more existential problem for the European Union.
The EU is, despite the intentions of Monnet and others, an elite construct, and the politics of elites is under serious attack.
In the meantime, the next target for the anti-politics insurgency must be France.
Only the very brave could now bet against Marine Le Pen becoming president next May.
A good article in the euobserver, a media outlet supporting the EU......once you get past the usual sneering it's quite a good read......
Trump’s 'Brexit plus' will strengthen May’s hand
LONDON, 11. NOV, 16:15
The similarities between watching Donald Trump’s victory and Britain’s vote to leave the EU in June were eerie.
An unpopular establishment candidate defeated by loudmouthed, scare-mongering populist - check. A revived nationalism and anger among the economically dispossessed - check.
Even the pattern of election night was the same, as the pundits’ confidence in the accuracy of the exit polls gradually unravelled as Hillary Clinton’s so-called ‘firewall’ of safe states were either lost or too-close-to-call.
In both upsets voters blindsided the opinion pollsters. Timid Trump supporters, like the silent Brexiteers of June, were missed by the polls only to vote in their millions.
Despite all the warning signs, neither result was supposed to happen.
It is Brexit Mark II.
The stark divide
The young and the university educated voted by large majorities for Mrs Clinton, just as in Britain they voted for EU membership.
The victims of globalisation, rightly aggrieved at having been ignored by the Democrat and Republican establishment alike, for a generation, voted for the anti-politics insurgent.
The ‘rust-belt’ states of Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, and their white, blue-collar Americans - natural Democrats - backed Trump.
Of the various common dynamics at play, only the "whitelash" theory doesn’t translate quite so well to the June referendum.
While African-American and Hispanic voters overwhelming backed Clinton, Britain’s Asian and African communities actually tended to lean towards Brexit, in large part because of complaints that it was harder for them to get jobs and visas to the UK than migrants from eastern Europe.
It is no coincidence that Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, and Marine Le Pen, the leader of France’s National Front, were among the first foreign politicians to congratulate him.
In particular, Farage who campaigned with Trump, speaking for him at the Republican National Convention, is now hoping Donald will give him a job.
On Friday (11 November) he joked that “I would quite like to be his ambassador to the European Union.” It’s not such an outlandish idea.
Yet Farage is not the only extremely pleased British right-winger.
UK possible big winner
Trump’s election is a huge fillip to those in the UK who campaigned for Brexit.
He is openly hostile towards the EU and, having backed the Brexit vote, warned that his presidency would offer "Brexit plus, plus, plus."
His antipathy to the trade deals with the Pacific countries and the EU also means that TTIP is now as dead as a dodo, while Britain would be ‘at the front of the queue’ to negotiate a trade deal with the US.
Suddenly the UK has more leverage in international trade talks and, perhaps, a slightly stronger hand to play in negotiations that will follow the triggering of Article 50 next March.
It is striking to compare the glum post-election reactions of Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande with that of Boris Johnson, Theresa May’s foreign minister and jester-in-chief, who on Thursday called on "fellow Europeans to snap out of this doom and gloom and whinge-a-rama."
Lord Marland, David Cameron’s former trade envoy, thinks that a UK-US economic partnership would be an easy win for both May and Trump.
“Both countries will be looking for quick-fix partners post these events and I have no doubt that Trump, whose mother was born in Scotland ... will be looking very favourably on economic relationships with the UK,” he said on Friday.
Uncertainty is certain
There is an argument that Theresa May and her Brexit ministers are getting over excited about making friends with the new boy. But Trump’s victory vindicates their own campaign strategy.
Barack Obama was no more interested in Britain than he was in the rest of Europe.
It is no surprise to hear fellow Brexit campaigner Iain Duncan Smith enthusing about the prospect of rebuilding the so-called ‘special relationship’ which has been "in the freezer now for about eight years".
If Trump’s election potentially alters the terms of Britain’s exit from the EU, it also poses a wider and more existential problem for the European Union.
The EU is, despite the intentions of Monnet and others, an elite construct, and the politics of elites is under serious attack.
In the meantime, the next target for the anti-politics insurgency must be France.
Only the very brave could now bet against Marine Le Pen becoming president next May.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
I assume we can work out how many student places are available and how many job offers are made to Indians.....
That migrants are not gainfully employed was never really the argument for there apparently being too many of them though was it? So if that isn't the criteria on how many we can apparently accommodate, what might be? What's the carrying capacity of Britain and what goes into determining that?
Yes burn your underpants!lol
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
I'm not really sure where you are wanting to take this Bruce, via housing stock, available school places, hospital capacity, access to healthcare, access to benefits or whatever. For me this particular issue was never specifically about numbers, even though there will be levels that we just cannot accommodate, it was more about the UK having the right to refuse entry and have the ability to control the flow. Once Brexit is completed if the population and electorate are not happy with levels of immigration or whatever, then we shall look at the government of the UK and not the EU, the people will then decide what government they wish. It's just the difference between controlled immigration and uncontrolled immigration.......
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