Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I see. 6-1 majority, eh?

And only NOW (When the vote went against THEIR will) they want to have their say on the terms, instead of making more choices for the electorate before the referendum. And you preach to me about democracy?

Why shouldn't they have their say on the terms? How is that undemocratic?

So you think it's more democratic that an unelected PM and her ministers make the key decisions that will affect this country for a generation and beyond, in complete isolation and with no mandate from the populous apart from the word Leave?

 

[edge]

Why shouldn't they have their say on the terms? How is that undemocratic?

So you think it's more democratic that an unelected PM and her ministers make the key decisions that will affect this country for a generation and beyond, in complete isolation and with no mandate from the populous apart from the word Leave?

Every day of the week they make decisions that affect everybody for generations with no other mandate than they happen to be on the right side of a vote were the majority voted them into power.
why is this so different?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Why shouldn't they have their say on the terms? How is that undemocratic?

Err....An election....And a referendum, both lost. Didn't convince the people then , why should they have a say (Theirs - not ours) now? Didn't bother to press to insert a wider choice in the referendum then, why should they decide (without the same choices being given to the public) now?

So you think it's more democratic that an unelected PM and her ministers make the key decisions that will affect this country for a generation and beyond, in complete isolation and with no mandate from the populous apart for the word Leave?

Unelected? In terms of being PM there was at least one round of voting within their party - unlike for Gordon Brown's tenure. I don't like the GE result as much as many others but it's inescapable that they got the most seats.

Complete isolation you say? Camoron came back from Brussels in complete isolation.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Err....An election....And a referendum, both lost.

The Tories didn't win an election with Brexit as part of their manifesto. They merely had the referendum offer as part of it.

The PM campaigned against Brexit ffs.

They have no mandate on Brexit apart from the word Leave, and we will leave the EU.

What Leave looks like should be debated and voted on by the House.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

Err....An election....And a referendum, both lost. Didn't convince the people then , why should they have a say (Theirs - not ours) now? Didn't bother to press to insert a wider choice in the referendum then, why should they decide (without the same choices being given to the public) now?



Unelected? In terms of being PM there was at least one round of voting within their party - unlike for Gordon Brown's tenure. I don't like the GE result as much as many others but it's inescapable that they got the most seats.

Complete isolation you say? Camoron came back from Brussels in complete isolation.

I thought you wanted sovereignty to return to the UK?

 

[peteblue]

I see. 6-1 majority, eh?

And only NOW (When the vote went against THEIR will) they want to have their say on the terms, instead of making more choices for the electorate before the referendum. And you preach to me about democracy?

This is a really important point. If some form of 'soft Brexit' or another form had been proposed then parliament knew that the electorate would probably go for it in large numbers, hence why they did not give us any options. They thought that by frightening us with a doom and despondency straight in/out vote that they could cower us into giving them the result they wanted, i.e fully in. Of course since we voted leave then that's why they are so keen on the various variants and their claims that we didn't know what we were voting for. They are a truly cretinous mob of chancers.......

 

[edge]

I thought you wanted sovereignty to return to the UK?

were does he say anything about anybody outside the UK

The Tories didn't win an election with Brexit as part of their manifesto. They merely had the referendum offer as part of it.

The PM campaigned against Brexit ffs.

They have no mandate on Brexit apart from the word Leave, and we will leave the EU.

What Leave looks like should be debated and voted on by the House.

so the EU should extend us the same courtesy and tell us what they want it to look like , before we go ahead with article 50 ?
No point us debating anything if they will not give an indication of what they will be will to compromise or not on, for instance no freedom of movement, no single market ect

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

so the EU should extend us the same courtesy and tell us what they want it to look like , before we go ahead with article 50 ?
No point us debating anything if they will not give an indication of what they will be will to compromise or not on, for instance no freedom of movement, no single market ect

It's not the EU's choice to decide what we as a Nation want it to look like.

We could take the hard Brexit choice and just leave without a care for retaining single market access and take what comes

Or we could decide that single market access is the priority and negotiate the best terms possible with the EU for doing so, understanding that there's obviously going to be some compromises involved.

It's up to our Parliament to debate what the priorities should be for the nation. It's their duty to make the right decisions on what Brexit should end up being.

What's not up for debate is that we're going to leave the EU, as per the referendum.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

This is a really important point. If some form of 'soft Brexit' or another form had been proposed then parliament knew that the electorate would probably go for it in large numbers, hence why they did not give us any options. They thought that by frightening us with a doom and despondency straight in/out vote that they could cower us into giving them the result they wanted, i.e fully in. Of course since we voted leave then that's why they are so keen on the various variants and their claims that we didn't know what we were voting for. They are a truly cretinous mob of chancers.......

The Govt of the day - the one you voted for put forward the Leave / Remain choice. If they'd have had a multiple option referendum then many would have cried foul.

Cameron was convinced (as were most others) that Remain would win, as the UK would make the pragmatic choice when the economic realities were spelt out. He got it spectacularly wrong.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

were does he say anything about anybody outside the UK

The UK is parliamentary democracy that is following its usually conventional process but he seems quite miffed about it.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I thought you wanted sovereignty to return to the UK?

I thought you said parliament was accountable?

To who? Themselves? Because a lot of them are showing contempt for a lot of the people what elected them over this.

The Tories didn't win an election with Brexit as part of their manifesto.

As the ONLY party to offer one, it's shows a certain amount of respect for democracy to the electorate. Probly garnered them the extra votes in the GE, too.

The PM campaigned against Brexit ffs.

Lot of good it did him, eh? At least he went after his spectacular balls-up, and at least this one gets what democracy is by upholding (Or at least trying to) the will of the people....Even if she is a tory.

They have no mandate on Brexit apart from the word Leave, and we will leave the EU.

Oh, back to the old 'advisory' chestnut. Well the way I see it, when we vote, we 'advise' the MP's to form a government. There's little crib when the biggest party does. There was little crib about the coailition.

Was the referendum on the alternative vote 'advisory' too? Where's all the hoo-hah about that from those that voted for it? Oh that's right - the majority was much bigger - but a majority all the same.

What Leave looks like should be debated and voted on by the House.

No. If anyone gets to vote on it, it should be the electorate. The opposition (combined with remain from within government) have no mandate to dictate terms to the democratically elected government. As I keep saying, you have to win an election to get a mandate. If labour had won the GE this thread wouldn't even exist. They didn't. Nor did remain win the referendum.

 

[edge]

It's not the EU's choice to decide what we as a Nation want it to look like.

We could take the hard Brexit choice and just leave without a care for retaining single market access and take what comes

Or we could decide that single market access is the priority and negotiate the best terms possible with the EU for doing so, understanding that there's obviously going to be some compromises involved.

It's up to our Parliament to debate what the priorities should be for the nation. It's their duty to make the right decisions on what Brexit should end up being.

What's not up for debate is that we're going to leave the EU, as per the referendum.

its all going to end up in some sort of compromise, I have said it all along it will end up pleasing neither side fully in the long run.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

This is a really important point. If some form of 'soft Brexit' or another form had been proposed then parliament knew that the electorate would probably go for it in large numbers, hence why they did not give us any options. They thought that by frightening us with a doom and despondency straight in/out vote that they could cower us into giving them the result they wanted, i.e fully in. Of course since we voted leave then that's why they are so keen on the various variants and their claims that we didn't know what we were voting for. They are a truly cretinous mob of chancers.......

Spot-on.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

its all going to end up in some sort of compromise, I have said it all along it will end up pleasing neither side fully in the long run.

And this is partly the reason I voted leave. The tory eurosceptics are a pretty unforgiving bunch. They don't get what they want (Almost in full) , they'll split the party.

Except those bliarite divs in the labour party will probly still be stamping their feet when that happens.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

I thought you said parliament was accountable?

To who? Themselves? Because a lot of them are showing contempt for a lot of the people what elected them over this.

They haven't debated or voted yet - in fact, the bill probably hasn't been drafted - so I don't know how they can have shot it down (which they won't do anyway).

In the UK we have elections to this legislature, usually every five years, at which point the members can be removed and replaced, thus they are accountable.