Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Joey66]

All this fuss on Grammar schools - on EU thread by the way!
TBF I and my older brother went to a secondary modern my sister went to a Grammar School - going by what my mother said in that era - we had a happy School life she had a hard unsocial life as we came from a working background and she earned the right to mingle with the elite who were pretty unfriendly to her, and she had to travel further yes my miner of a father was so proud yes she got an educated job, but in the end I worked hard and did better climbed to a higher status as a manager!
The only thing I noticed on leaving the 5th year of my secondary school I heard that competition of places in exams we had each year was going to be abolished as every year we sat two exams to see if you went up a class or down a class i.e. competition you had to work hard to better yourself not rely on course work!
A certain michael Gove wanted to fetch that back in the comprehensive schools can anyone argue a exam on the terms work is a better target to get on in life than teachers fiddling course work to reach unnecessary targets?????????????????????????
In other words the bottom three in your class went down the top three went up a class to better themselves is life not like that????
then a school would not need targets as the term exams would sort the system out if marked fairly?

 

[Joey66]

It's a good post Joe. There's little doubt that with 2.5 million unemployed there are feasibly people to take jobs, but that doesn't mean either they will or they will want too.

I spoke to a guy in construction down my way recently and he said it's madness the Brexit stuff, as there simply aren't enough builders already and Brexit will make it worse. You are right when you say we should aim to be self sufficient and train people up, but that takes time doesn't it? Are immigrants buying us time to produce a new generation? As it's not just builders, it's teachers, nurses, doctors were we are short as well.

I think the big issue we have had from both parties has been that they have taken it for granted that a pool of talented individuals will be willing to come and in all honesty have made it increasingly difficult for people already here to get the skills and support they need. I think politicians of all parties have done this. I'm not sure the answer is the anti-immigrant rhetoric we see though, but is by providing better skills and opportunities to people living in this country through training.

I think there's a balance. Migrants are buying us time in a whole load of areas currently. My issue is governments don't want to take the fundamental reform that doesn't make us dependant on this.

Thanks for your comments I agree we do have a massive skill shortage yes industries have gone, but that argument is blown out of the water when you cannot get a tradesman on a building site or even in your house who you know is capable!
I agree the vocational skills have been abandoned or fast tracked NVQ= not very qualified joke - why did the do away with techinical college city and guilds ??????????
a four year training in work apprenticeship programme successful for decades? ie you learn the theory and then in work you gain it in your hands - my old boss taught me 75% of what led me to a great career the technical side theory a necessity blended in nicely -the employees we had with OND and HND came and went why because he called them bookworms not physically capable of doing the simple list of tasks!
I thought he was hard then when I was a hire or fire manager I soon learnt how true he was!
Too many degrees from universities not the students fault by the way it's the system some students are just academics suitable for some jobs no every job - higher training skills are needed in trades in building etc
My best exam I attended was a 12 month managers NEBSS course - engraved into me was PLAN - ORGANISE - MOTIVATE - CONTROL your days work if that is done at any level you have a great workforce along with good concise COMMUNICATION!

 

[Kiwi]

Honestly this thread does my head in due to two certain parties posturing.
I can understand to an extent the desire for greater control over your country, and more control over borders.
However the ongoing response to any kind of reasoned argument with deflection is just utterly daft.

 

[ilikecheese]

Honestly this thread does my head in due to two certain parties posturing.
I can understand to an extent the desire for greater control over your country, and more control over borders.
However the ongoing response to any kind of reasoned argument with deflection is just utterly daft.

Largely because nationalist/populist views are built on falsehoods, half truths, and out and out lies.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

IN your opinion which blows with the wind!

There are no indigenous people in the UK. That is a fact.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

IN your opinion which blows with the wind!

I would also welcome you pointing out any inconsistencies in my opinions.

 

[Joey66]

There are no indigenous people in the UK. That is a fact.

yes let's get the Vikings back they were brilliant farmers and great jewelry craftsmen, but they were murders as well yes I get your point the UK has many origins of the human species!
go to the top of the classlol

 

[orchard]

There are no indigenous people in the UK. That is a fact.

-or anywhere in that case

 

[catcherintherye]

Thanks for your comments I agree we do have a massive skill shortage yes industries have gone, but that argument is blown out of the water when you cannot get a tradesman on a building site or even in your house who you know is capable!
I agree the vocational skills have been abandoned or fast tracked NVQ= not very qualified joke - why did the do away with techinical college city and guilds ??????????
a four year training in work apprenticeship programme successful for decades? ie you learn the theory and then in work you gain it in your hands - my old boss taught me 75% of what led me to a great career the technical side theory a necessity blended in nicely -the employees we had with OND and HND came and went why because he called them bookworms not physically capable of doing the simple list of tasks!
I thought he was hard then when I was a hire or fire manager I soon learnt how true he was!
Too many degrees from universities not the students fault by the way it's the system some students are just academics suitable for some jobs no every job - higher training skills are needed in trades in building etc
My best exam I attended was a 12 month managers NEBSS course - engraved into me was PLAN - ORGANISE - MOTIVATE - CONTROL your days work if that is done at any level you have a great workforce along with good concise COMMUNICATION!

You too mate, good post and interesting as always. I'm not sure I succeed on keeping the information concise haha!

Whichever direction we go in we need to have a serious re-think. I feel for young people these days, they are hold sold into going to university whilst there is a culture that's been permitted and fostered whereby opportunities in work get ever smaller. For many it's university of unemployment, so they choose university but with a huge debt at the end of it.

I think we need to stop viewing further education as an entirely academic pursuit between the ages of 18-22. You have rightly identified all the things you have learn, by the sounds of it after you were 22 and also outside the terrain of the strictly academic. I'd like to see a lot more opportunities given to younger people. They won't all be able to take them, but why not give them a chance?

For far too long governments have not put enough pressure on company's to give people an opportunity, even at first starting at the bottom via apprenticeships. I know there are some good ones but nowhere near enough. For me they have also cut back funding and support to all people particularly those older than 22 to learn different skills and taken the easy option of knowing they can rely on migrants to fill the voids. I'm all for having migrants, but the benefits they bring should be shared more equally.

No group are ever perfect but on the whole they are more positive than negative and do jobs we don't have cover for, but what's the long term plan? Why aren't we looking to support people into the building trades, but also schools, nurses, hospitals etc.

What you highlight is right though, learning is not only university degrees between 18-22. We need a more varied approach and to recognise there many different times people can learn and develop a skill base. Rather than the rhetoric of sending immigrants home often championed by politicians, maybe encouraging the people who currently live here to have the skills to fill the jobs would be more effective?

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

-or anywhere in that case

Correct.

 

[Joey66]

Honestly this thread does my head in due to two certain parties posturing.
I can understand to an extent the desire for greater control over your country, and more control over borders.
However the ongoing response to any kind of reasoned argument with deflection is just utterly daft.

Honestly this thread does my head in due to two certain parties posturing.
I can understand to an extent the desire for greater control over your country, and more control over borders.
However the ongoing response to any kind of reasoned argument with deflection is just utterly daft.

with your avatar do you live in New zealand outside the EU by any chance?

 

[Joey66]

Correct.

so whats your point then I think I missed it???????????????????????
stating the obvious to prove a point hey ho!

 

[orchard]

Correct.

I know mate. But what does that establish? We are very tolerant of accepting new citizens, just because some think 'maybe we're a bit too populated and should hold back a bit' doesn't make them racists,bigots, or want a system where lifelong workers+residents never attain citizenship.

 

[dandydan]

Correct.

So you're saying all those native Americans and aborigines need to wind thier necks in?

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

so whats your point then I think I missed it???????????????????????
stating the obvious to prove a point hey ho!

I know mate. But what does that establish? We are very tolerant of accepting new citizens, just because some think 'maybe we're a bit too populated and should hold back a bit' doesn't make them racists,bigots, or want a system where lifelong workers+residents never attain citizenship.

Pete referred to the indigenous people. I'm pointing out that any such mention is pointless because there is no such thing.