Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

Right, but their seems to be a massive lack of logic behind it when you consider the economic benefits it provides.

I hope you enjoy voting for either Trump or Clinton....meanwhile we are trying to sort out our future for the next 100 years......

 

[peteblue]

The way I see it, economic arguments are just a cover for a nationalist idea.
It's a 20th century way of thinking.
I just travelled to Ireland, Portugal and Italy in one trip. Used one currency and travelled on continental Europe without a passport. What I didn't notice was any lack of individual culture. I met Irish, Portuguese and Italians, each as different as you'd expect. The EU has not diluted their culture, merely removed the clunky 20th century bureaucracy and made it easier to live on the continent.
To me, it's obvious Britain would be economically better off in the EU but this decision was taken out of nationalistic pride above economic sense.

The first part of your post is spot on, it would be great to just travel the whole world with one currency and all be in it together. Unfortunately, it's not like that and some of us, well 17.4Million do not wish to be part of this non democratic edifice called the EU. It's not what we voted to join......

 

[peteblue]

I don't know how anyone can see past this.

Because it would probably happen anyway. To assume that we would not do any trade within Europe is just silly.....

 

[Ruairi77]

The first part of your post is spot on, it would be great to just travel the whole world with one currency and all be in it together. Unfortunately, it's not like that and some of us, well 17.4Million do not wish to be part of this non democratic edifice called the EU. It's not what we voted to join......

I get that and respect it. I just don't buy the economic argument.

 

[hullefc]

I'm just using your figures. The starting point is either £10.1Bn or £10.1Bn plus VAT......

Thanks for pointing out the VAT which means we pay even less to the EU than is assumed.

European Union Finances 2015: statement on the 2015 EU Budget and measures to counter fraud and financial mismanagement

This shows the UK contributions to the EU budget.

It says in 2105 the gross payment was £17.7 billion. Which includes the Gross National Income payment ( depends how rich a country is) £13 billion, plus VAT = £2.3 billion and a thing called TOR £2.4 billion.

TOR - Traditional Own Resources payments - which is another word for custom duties/tariffs imposed on goods imported into the EU- TOR payments at 75 per cent to the EU. The remaining 25 per cent is retained by the UK to cover the costs of administering collection on behalf of the EU. This amounts £2.4 billion to the EU and the UK keeps £800 million = £3.2 billion. As this is paid by those exporting into the EU/UK it is not an expense on the UK treasury.

That means the figure is £17.7 - £3.2 (TOR payment)= £14.5 billion (includes VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

The UK gets a rebate - "the estimated value of the UK’s rebate in 2015 is €5.6 billion (£4.4 billion)" £14.5 billion - £4.4 billion = £10.1 billion (including VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

"UK public sector receipts in 2015, mainly from the European Agricultural Guarantee (EAGF), European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development (EAFRD) and the Social and Regional Development Funds, are expected to be around £4.4 billion. The majority of these receipts will either be paid to, or used in support of, the private sector but are channelled through government departments or agencies".

£10.1 billion minus this EAGF payment of £4.4 billion = £5.7 billion (includes VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

"The EU makes some payments directly to the private sector, for example to carry out research activities. These payments do not appear in the public sector’s accounts. It is estimated that in 2013, these receipts were worth £1.4 billion. These payments are not included in Tables 3.A or 3.C-F, which provide data on public sector receipts only.

So that is £5.7 billion minus £1.4 billion = £4.3 billion (includes VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

The UK could decide to reduce the VAT or it could add it to is coffers which would mean that the money saved by not being in the EU is £4.3 billion.

 

[ilikecheese]

I get that and respect it. I just don't buy the economic argument.

I think it's them Muslim rayguns they are worried about.

 

[Joey66]

I think it's them Muslim rayguns they are worried about.

Your new future president Trump is worried about them, do you think he will get in?

 

[peteblue]

Thanks for pointing out the VAT which means we pay even less to the EU than is assumed.

European Union Finances 2015: statement on the 2015 EU Budget and measures to counter fraud and financial mismanagement

This shows the UK contributions to the EU budget.

It says in 2105 the gross payment was £17.7 billion. Which includes the Gross National Income payment ( depends how rich a country is) £13 billion, plus VAT = £2.3 billion and a thing called TOR £2.4 billion.

TOR - Traditional Own Resources payments - which is another word for custom duties/tariffs imposed on goods imported into the EU- TOR payments at 75 per cent to the EU. The remaining 25 per cent is retained by the UK to cover the costs of administering collection on behalf of the EU. This amounts £2.4 billion to the EU and the UK keeps £800 million = £3.2 billion. As this is paid by those exporting into the EU/UK it is not an expense on the UK treasury.

That means the figure is £17.7 - £3.2 (TOR payment)= £14.5 billion (includes VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

The UK gets a rebate - "the estimated value of the UK’s rebate in 2015 is €5.6 billion (£4.4 billion)" £14.5 billion - £4.4 billion = £10.1 billion (including VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

"UK public sector receipts in 2015, mainly from the European Agricultural Guarantee (EAGF), European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development (EAFRD) and the Social and Regional Development Funds, are expected to be around £4.4 billion. The majority of these receipts will either be paid to, or used in support of, the private sector but are channelled through government departments or agencies".

£10.1 billion minus this EAGF payment of £4.4 billion = £5.7 billion (includes VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

"The EU makes some payments directly to the private sector, for example to carry out research activities. These payments do not appear in the public sector’s accounts. It is estimated that in 2013, these receipts were worth £1.4 billion. These payments are not included in Tables 3.A or 3.C-F, which provide data on public sector receipts only.

So that is £5.7 billion minus £1.4 billion = £4.3 billion (includes VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

The UK could decide to reduce the VAT or it could add it to is coffers which would mean that the money saved by not being in the EU is £4.3 billion.

Thanks for reposting the exact same figures as before.....so €10.1Bn is the starting point prior to distributing the money in the UK.......

 

[peteblue]

I get that and respect it. I just don't buy the economic argument.

We don't do things just for economics, but even here we will probably be better off......don't accept all this Eu is the master of the Universe stuff. They are losing the UK, they will be much poorer Politically, Militarily and Economically. They will be upset, they will throw their toys out the pram, but the world is looking at how the Uk and the Eu play this. So far we are doing ok, the Eu not so well, if they do their usual arrogant we are in charge routine, they will look stupid and feeble. The Uk meanwhile will just get on with trading with the world......

 

[Joey66]

Thanks for pointing out the VAT which means we pay even less to the EU than is assumed.

European Union Finances 2015: statement on the 2015 EU Budget and measures to counter fraud and financial mismanagement

This shows the UK contributions to the EU budget.

It says in 2105 the gross payment was £17.7 billion. Which includes the Gross National Income payment ( depends how rich a country is) £13 billion, plus VAT = £2.3 billion and a thing called TOR £2.4 billion.

TOR - Traditional Own Resources payments - which is another word for custom duties/tariffs imposed on goods imported into the EU- TOR payments at 75 per cent to the EU. The remaining 25 per cent is retained by the UK to cover the costs of administering collection on behalf of the EU. This amounts £2.4 billion to the EU and the UK keeps £800 million = £3.2 billion. As this is paid by those exporting into the EU/UK it is not an expense on the UK treasury.

That means the figure is £17.7 - £3.2 (TOR payment)= £14.5 billion (includes VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

The UK gets a rebate - "the estimated value of the UK’s rebate in 2015 is €5.6 billion (£4.4 billion)" £14.5 billion - £4.4 billion = £10.1 billion (including VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

"UK public sector receipts in 2015, mainly from the European Agricultural Guarantee (EAGF), European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development (EAFRD) and the Social and Regional Development Funds, are expected to be around £4.4 billion. The majority of these receipts will either be paid to, or used in support of, the private sector but are channelled through government departments or agencies".

£10.1 billion minus this EAGF payment of £4.4 billion = £5.7 billion (includes VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

"The EU makes some payments directly to the private sector, for example to carry out research activities. These payments do not appear in the public sector’s accounts. It is estimated that in 2013, these receipts were worth £1.4 billion. These payments are not included in Tables 3.A or 3.C-F, which provide data on public sector receipts only.

So that is £5.7 billion minus £1.4 billion = £4.3 billion (includes VAT payment of £2.3 billion).

The UK could decide to reduce the VAT or it could add it to is coffers which would mean that the money saved by not being in the EU is £4.3 billion.

before the common market we joined on a ballot by the way the two referendrum one in particular PM Harold Wilson just kept his nose out of it all!
we paid purchase tax on luxury goods it ranged from 3-7 % depending on what you purchased lust from memory might be wrong yet as soon as we joined the EU or common market as what we voted for trade only bang 10% vat on most goods bar food and children's clothes overnight it was hiked up overnight on joining!

 

[ilikecheese]

Your new future president Trump is worried about them, do you think he will get in?

I surely hope not. I can tell you that in the state I live in my vote simply doesn't matter.

I can't speak for backwards, conservative rednecks who think he is worthy of being the leader of the free world because he talks about building walls and stuff. It's kinda similar to that NHS campaign bus...stupid people buy stupid stuff. There will be no wall...and Mexico ain't paying for it. Sounds good to morons I suppose.

 

[hullefc]

Thanks for reposting the exact same figures as before.....so €10.1Bn is the starting point prior to distributing the money in the UK.......

Yes the starting point £10.1 billion 'prior to distributing the money to the UK'. Then the UK receives £4.4 billion EGAF and £1.4 billion to businesses = £5.8 billion. The UK treasury pays £4.3 billion to the EU of which is £2.3 billion of VAT.

 

[hullefc]

before the common market we joined on a ballot by the way the two referendrum one in particular PM Harold Wilson just kept his nose out of it all!
we paid purchase tax on luxury goods it ranged from 3-7 % depending on what you purchased lust from memory might be wrong yet as soon as we joined the EU or common market as what we voted for trade only bang 10% vat on most goods bar food and children's clothes overnight it was hiked up overnight on joining!

Joey If you mean this about purchasing tax.

"Between October 1940 and 1973 the UK had a consumption tax called Purchase Tax, which was levied at different rates depending on goods' luxuriousness.[5] Purchase Tax was applied to the wholesale price, initially at a rate of 331⁄3%. This was doubled in April 1942 to 662⁄3%, and further increased in April 1943 to a rate of 100%, before reverting in April 1946 to 331⁄3% again. Unlike VAT, Purchase Tax was applied at the point of manufacture and distribution, not at the point of sale. The rate of Purchase Tax at the start of 1973, when it gave way to VAT, was 25%.

On 1 January 1973 the UK joined the European Economic Community and as a consequence Purchase Tax was replaced by Value Added Tax on 1 April 1973.[5][8][9] TheConservative Chancellor Lord Barber set a single VAT rate (10%) on most goods and services.[5][8][9]

In July 1974, Labour Chancellor Denis Healey reduced the standard rate of VAT from 10% to 8% but introduced a new higher rate of 12.5% for petrol and some luxury goods.[5][8][10] In November 1974, Healey doubled the higher rate of VAT to 25%.[8] Healey reduced the higher rate back to 12.5% in April 1976.[8][10][11]".

Purchase tax before the UK joined the EU was 25%, after it went down to 10%.

 

[peteblue]

Yes the starting point £10.1 billion 'prior to distributing the money to the UK'. Then the UK receives £4.4 billion EGAF and £1.4 billion to businesses = £5.8 billion. The UK treasury pays £4.3 billion to the EU of which is £2.3 billion of VAT.

So, if we start with the £10.1Bn, we can then decide where we distribute the money.......our money....to distribute as we wish.......

 

[pornpimol2]

So, if we start with the £10.1Bn, we can then decide where we distribute the money.......our money....to distribute as we wish.......

Who gets the VAT ?