Current Affairs EU In or Out

[roydo]

I hope our Brexit goes well, and we can start engineering business off yet again let's see everything comes around in cycles there was of course a risk of staying in the Euro may implode in the future a trading block would be a better idea in Europe IMO

I could not agree more.

 

[roydo]

Second paragraph: A remainer clutching at straws...

Fourth paragraph: "...no pain in the coming years..." Don't make me laugh! How old are you? There's been pain in ALL of the decades I have lived through. There will be 'pain' in the future. The good old remain scare-mongering again.

Totally boring. Give up. Give it a rest. While criticising those who voted 'leave' ad nauseam, I have found those who wanted to 'remain' in the weeks following the referendum to be the most crying, whingeing, doom-laden people I've ever come across on t'internet.

I am 51.

Havnt criticised anyone for voting how they did.

I have questioned why they voted, and have been dismayed that such an important decision was taken after a joke of a campaign, on all sides.

But, again, as I have said, we are where we are. Lets crack on, put it to bed collectively as a nation, and I am sure, given time and decent, stable leadership, Britain will be ok.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I am 51.

Havnt criticised anyone for voting how they did.

I have questioned why they voted, and have been dismayed that such an important decision was taken after a joke of a campaign, on all sides.

But, again, as I have said, we are where we are. Lets crack on, put it to bed collectively as a nation, and I am sure, given time and decent, stable leadership, Britain will be ok.

You may just remember the three-day week, power cuts, etc. in the 1970s. Bad, bad times.

The three million unemployed, and 15% interest rates under Thatcher. The dismantling of the mining industry(bring in Mcgregor to deliberately do that), the steel industry. Bad, bad times.

What we will go through with Brexit is nothing (IMO) compared to those times.

Others have heavily criticised those who voted leave, in the over 400 pages of this thread. That is why this thread is the size it is - because those who voted leave have felt compelled to respond to the slurs against them.

 

[roydo]

You may just remember the three-day week, power cuts, etc. in the 1970s. Bad, bad times.

The three million unemployed, and 15% interest rates under Thatcher. The dismantling of the mining industry(bring in Mcgregor to deliberately do that), the steel industry. Bad, bad times.

What we will go through with Brexit is nothing (IMO) compared to those times.

Others have heavily criticised those who voted leave, in the over 400 pages of this thread. That is why this thread is the size it is - because those who voted leave have felt compelled to respond to the slurs against them.

I remember those days well. I wont go into the mining stuff, ancient history, and no good will come of it. I also have some first hand knowledge of stuff involved in it.

Anyone who criticises someone over how they actually voted in a democratic process is idiotic, imo. Discuss the issues, but not disrespect the voter is my opinion. Pretty sure I havnt done that.

Yeah, I think the Remain camp did over egg the armagedon of leaving, in the same way the Leave did the opposite.

Which is why, now things have become (a little bit) clearer, that many voters might be having second thoughts. Because they based their vote on stuff that was plainly nonsense. This is not a 5 year decision, it is final. And in the same way your Dad would give you 3 warnings before he cuffed you round the ear, I wish the electorate could be summoned again.

It wont happen, thats fine. So like you, and Del Boy say, "We have had worse days Rodney" crack on and make he best of it.

 

[Westland]

I remember those days well. I wont go into the mining stuff, ancient history, and no good will come of it. I also have some first hand knowledge of stuff involved in it.

Anyone who criticises someone over how they actually voted in a democratic process is idiotic, imo. Discuss the issues, but not disrespect the voter is my opinion. Pretty sure I havnt done that.

Yeah, I think the Remain camp did over egg the armagedon of leaving, in the same way the Leave did the opposite.

Which is why, now things have become (a little bit) clearer, that many voters might be having second thoughts. Because they based their vote on stuff that was plainly nonsense. This is not a 5 year decision, it is final. And in the same way your Dad would give you 3 warnings before he cuffed you round the ear, I wish the electorate could be summoned again.

It wont happen, thats fine. So like you, and Del Boy say, "We have had worse days Rodney" crack on and make he best of it.

Polls have shown more people who voted remain are happy with Brexit than those who are unhappy who voted to leave. Simply stating there's this groundswell of people who have regretted or didn't understand is wrong. A few idiots who have been interviewed proves nothing.

 

[peteblue]

What are you going on about.

If you want to sell products to Europe. You will need to comply with EU law.

This is a fact.


Just like if you will want to sell products to UK. Countries will need to comply with UK law.

Again a fact.


If you think this is untrue then you completely fail to understand trade laws.


This means if he wants to sell to EU. He'll still have to fill that survey in!

This of course is perfectly true. Just like trading with any country. What it fails to mention is that 90% of the UK economy doesn't trade with the EU, but at the moment 100% has to obey EU law. That will now change and only those companies that wish to trade with the EU will have to follow their standards etc etc, while everyone else can just ignore it.....

There are many pro's and con's of being in or out of the EU.......

 

[Joey66]

This of course is perfectly true. Just like trading with any country. What it fails to mention is that 90% of the UK economy doesn't trade with the EU, but at the moment 100% has to obey EU law. That will now change and only those companies that wish to trade with the EU will have to follow their standards etc etc, while everyone else can just ignore it.....

There are many pro's and con's of being in or out of the EU.......

No membership fee rather pay tariffs cheaper if necessary!

 

[bobbydigital]

I am 51.

Havnt criticised anyone for voting how they did.

I have questioned why they voted, and have been dismayed that such an important decision was taken after a joke of a campaign, on all sides.

But, again, as I have said, we are where we are. Lets crack on, put it to bed collectively as a nation, and I am sure, given time and decent, stable leadership, Britain will be ok.

Spot on. All this we won, you lost stuff is absolutely rubbish. Nobody has won anything and nothing has actually changed since the referendum. It is easy to forget we are all part of the same society and questioning a decision and discussing alternatives is hardly a crime, especially so considering nobody knows what this decision actually means yet.

There are many pro's and con's of being in or out of the EU.......

Spot on as well. Even as a remainer I can agree that the opportunity to sort out our own bilateral trade deals is very advantageous if utilised well. I could also go into the multitude of negative effects of leaving the EU and the fact that trade deals are far more complicated than you seem to believe, but this has been done previously and nobody who should listen will listen anyway.


Where we are at now is a bit of an impasse. It's clear to all but the most die hard of leavers that access to the single market is a must. This is why in a way I understand what Theresa May has done. Let the leavers (Davis, Fox, Johnson) have the big jobs and prove we can retain single market access without allowing freedom of movement or paying into the EU coffers, let them have the opportunity to sort out these amazing post Brexit trade deals with the rest of the world. I'm not going to bring into the debate about the GDP per capita benefits of EU migration, talk about the NHS 350 mil a week lies, mention the effects on the less fortunate and disadvantaged of consigning ourselves to further tory rule or get drawn into some EU super state conspiracy.


Surely it is a good idea to try and figure out what leave actually means before leaving? (admittedly we don't have a great deal of time though). If leaving will actually make us better off as a collective, I will be happy and I'm sure most leavers also want all of us as a society to be better off too, so maybe we should take as much time as we can to look into what the decision means first.

 

[1966efc]

mention the effects on the less fortunate and disadvantaged of consigning ourselves to further tory rule or get drawn into some EU super state conspiracy.

Are there many economic unions around the globe which feel it necessary to have a flag and an anthem? Those are signs of superstate ambitions.

As to Tory rule and the effects on the poorest, I'd be interested if you did outline your position.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Are there many economic unions around the globe which feel it necessary to have a flag and an anthem? Those are signs of superstate ambitions.

As to Tory rule and the effects on the poorest, I'd be interested if you did outline your position.

I doubt there are many economic unions around the world with quite the long and ugly history of wars and conflict amongst and between its members as the European one. From the horse's mouth:

"the promotion of peace and the well-being of the Union´s citizens. an area of freedom, security and justice without internal frontiers. sustainable development based on balanced economic growth and social justice."

That's from the Lisbon Treaty. I'm not really sure there's a great deal to argue about with their aims, is there?

 

[bobbydigital]

Are there many economic unions around the globe which feel it necessary to have a flag and an anthem? Those are signs of superstate ambitions.

As to Tory rule and the effects on the poorest, I'd be interested if you did outline your position.

Sorry for caring more about the future of a country than worrying about a flag that does not replace the union jack and an anthem I've never heard before. I apologise again and I feel for you coping with such oppression.

I don't want to detract from the EU debate as it's the thread we are in but I feel there is somewhat of a precedent in the policies of the major parties and how they effect different parts of society.

 

[1966efc]

Sorry for caring more about the future of a country than worrying about a flag that does not replace the union jack and an anthem I've never heard before. I apologise again and I feel for you coping with such oppression.

I don't want to detract from the EU debate as it's the thread we are in but I feel there is somewhat of a precedent in the policies of the major parties and how they effect different parts of society.

Absolutely no need to apologise.

However, as one who does not love the Union Flag nor the anthem of the U K, I can still have the objectivity necessary to recognise that those aspects of E U existence still penetrate a little further into the public consciousness than you care to own.

Putting to one side the overt signs of Union, the poor will be feeling miffed by exit from the E U for what reasons? And how will exit the course of domestic politics?

I'm pretty sure those were the questions I asked rather than a request for your diagnosis of my well being.

 

[1966efc]

I doubt there are many economic unions around the world with quite the long and ugly history of wars and conflict amongst and between its members as the European one. From the horse's mouth:

"the promotion of peace and the well-being of the Union´s citizens. an area of freedom, security and justice without internal frontiers. sustainable development based on balanced economic growth and social justice."

That's from the Lisbon Treaty. I'm not really sure there's a great deal to argue about with their aims, is there?

E U development from a means of economic growth to an organ of 'peace and love' (to quote Ringo) was neither sanctioned by nor approved of by a majority of voters. So we're back to square one of the original debate.

However, as laudable as those aims surely are, I'm reasonably convinced that the change in the axis of power from West to East has affected the chances of inter European conflict more than the E U's influence on simple nationalistic determinants in Berlin, Paris or Rome.

 

[bobbydigital]

Absolutely no need to apologise.

However, as one who does not love the Union Flag nor the anthem of the U K, I can still have the objectivity necessary to recognise that those aspects of E U existence still penetrate a little further into the public consciousness than you care to own.

Of course. It is undeniable that there are many positive and many negative effects of being part of the EU. How one weighs these effects up will determine their overall viewpoint.

Putting to one side the overt signs of Union, the poor will be feeling miffed by exit from the E U for what reasons? And how will exit the course of domestic politics?

I'm pretty sure those were the questions I asked rather than a request for your diagnosis of my well being.

The only question you actually asked was about economic unions having a flag and an anthem. Anyway, I really don't feel the need to go through and list the pros and cons of the whole debate and how they will effect different elements of society, if you haven't made up your mind by now it's a bit late.

Going back to my original post, what are you so miffed about anyway? You won the vote, leavers are in place to negotiate our exit and subsequent trade deals. Surely you believe they will be able to negotiate a great exit agreement, retain access to the single market with no concessions on freedom of movement, not pay into the EU. What's wrong with expecting to see that in place?

 

[1966efc]

Of course. It is undeniable that there are many positive and many negative effects of being part of the EU. How one weighs these effects up will determine their overall viewpoint.



The only question you actually asked was about economic unions having a flag and an anthem. Anyway, I really don't feel the need to go through and list the pros and cons of the whole debate and how they will effect different elements of society, if you haven't made up your mind by now it's a bit late.

Going back to my original post, what are you so miffed about anyway? You won the vote, leavers are in place to negotiate our exit and subsequent trade deals. Surely you believe they will be able to negotiate a great exit agreement, retain access to the single market with no concessions on freedom of movement, not pay into the EU. What's wrong with expecting to see that in place?

All sorts of wrong here.

"Miffed" ... the result doesn't annoy me or particularly please me. I'm not British and have no emotional investment in the issue. I'm far more interested in the reasons for the result and the contorted arguments which have been doing the rounds. Specifically, it intrigues me how domestic politics are more or less affected by it. Hence my question about overt signs of Union and the effects Bexit may have on the very poor.

I wondered why you wouldn't mention those as they are my areas of such concern as I have.

As to the terms of exit, who knows? I suspect the media and those interested in the issue will interpret these as good / bad depending on their original vote position:

Leaver: Look, it's raining diamonds.

Remainer: They'd have been bigger had we stayed.