Current Affairs EU In or Out

[JimmyJeffers]

I'm done with him. I can accept him sharing a platform with Sinn Fein and Hamas, but getting into bed with the Tories is beyond the pale.

He’s a class traitor

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Oh dear looking like the talks with the Tory government have hit Mays red lines. Remains to be seen if this habit of not listening like the last 3 years can be broken. At least Labour entered talks with good grace willing to compromise.

Brexit: Government offers 'no change' to deal, says Labour

Sir Keir Starmer says ministers are not "countenancing any change" on the wording of the existing plan.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Joey66]

Heard on radio 4 a Tory MP call Corbyn a ‘dangerous Marxist’ again. Again the interviewer just let the comment pass. I’ve never heard anyone getting pulled up on this. I’d love to ask him what he considers a Marxist to be and how this relates to policies proposed by Corbyn.

Spending a £ trillion then taxing your garden.....

 

[Joey66]

... which would explain your confusion, I think.

Well if it's not true he can sue the author.......

 

[Joey66]

Until the EU took your salt... That's when everything changed!

I'd pay them in salt.......

 

[Jebus_lives]

Well if it's not true he can sue the author.......

I'm going to make a prediction here and say, but correct me if I'm wrong, that you have absolutely no knowledge of libel law or it's application.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Oh dear looking like the talks with the Tory government have hit Mays red lines. Remains to be seen if this habit of not listening like the last 3 years can be broken. At least Labour entered talks with good grace willing to compromise.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47833841[/UR.L]

http://Maybe they hit Labours red lines

 

[Jebus_lives]

http://Maybe they hit Labours red lines

Link doesn't work mate

 

[Khalekan]

I'd pay them in salt.......

That is where the word “salary” comes from.

In ancient times many employers paid their staff with salt, a much valued commodity which could then be bartered for other essentials.

 

[Joey66]

That is where the word “salary” comes from.

In ancient times many employers paid their staff with salt, a much valued commodity which could then be bartered for other essentials.

@Jebus would have known that it's GCE entertainment level lol

 

[Jebus_lives]

@Jebus would have known that it's GCE entertainment level lol

What are GCE entertainment levels?

Also, you could do with a GCSE in tagging people properly.

 

[Armel]

I recall us having this same discussion before mate. I'm talking about net contribution. We only get back approx one third of our gross contribution in the form of grants/subsidies etc. That is less than any other nation, with only Germany coming close. So when you say that a relationship should be give and take, and in the UK's case it's always take, that's not strictly true is it.

I'm not entirely sure if that was with me (this discussion keeps coming up). Could well be, this topic moves at a tremendous pace and tbh it's quite hard to keep track off. At any rate there's a whole group of countries that pay in more than they receive. Again if you divide a head it's not that bad compared to others (net contributers; so receive less than they put in) - you wouldn't want to be the Netherlands or Sweden then.

We'll have agree to disagree; the rules are there for everyone (if you're bored: https://publications.europa.eu/en/p...lication/8bc08dd0-f1ed-4f45-bab4-75ac2a63d048). If Poland (random pick) suddenly starts doing very well, they'll end up in a similar situation. A membership fee.

I'm talking about being able to compromise in negotiations. It's essential; look at the countries that have produced a whole range of prominent quality EU politicians. Germany, the Benelux countries, France etc... Your size (and how much you pay in etc...) doesn't necessarily dictate everything. If you're at the table when the deal is done you're in the game, and can steer the final outcome. Or alternatively you can beg like Cameron; and he still got something - a surprisingly good deal actually.

I think with the rise of populism in the UK, it's inevitable that the EU will be seen by many as the bad guys. This is a notion is shared by both the well educated and the ignorant. The only difference is the well educated can back up their theories with flowery words.

It does look at the moment that we are headed toward a very soft brexit. As a remainer I can accept this through gritted teeth so long as freedom of movement is maintained (thats my red line). As you say the soft Brexit will give further voice to the hard brexiteers who will inevitably point the finger in the direction of Brussels, when the blame lies firmly and squarely with the UK Govt. I think its unavoidable that the UK's exit from the EU will create unrest within the 27 member states with Italy and Poland voicing their displeasure with the EU.

That's a bit problematic seeing that's probably a red line for a lot of the Brexiteers. Mind you I also love freedom of movement so I understand.

The UK leaving imo won't have an effect on that. There were issues even before that; for a variety of reasons. Italy, for different reasons - but seeing that they just got a secret deal (to the outrage of the Dutch; so they did disclose it but on the condition that it won't be released to the public) for their budget they'll be calm for a while. A lot of issues with those new countries could have been avoided though; it all went too fast, I just read the memoirs of the main negotiator for Belgium for that accession round. Was a shambles, they were warned, the UK wanted to rush it so they did. Luckily they were resisted on Turkey or the whole thing would be an even greater mess.

Yeah it's a concern for sure. Baudet is as you say a highly polished Wilders. He shares the same visions, speaks the same mantra he just dresses things up more (speaking in Latin, quoting pre 19th century literature, etc...). Kinda reminds me of Jacob Rees Mogg.

I think he preys on the insecurity of the dutch people, pandering to their concerns on immigration, not so much that the immigrants are taking dutch jobs but more that dutch culture is being watered down by the influx of other cultures who are slow to adopt the dutch way of life, language and culture.

He and his party are working with the very real splits in dutch society and in doing so are appealing to voters on both sides of the barriers. To the well educated "elites" and also to the poorly educated and low paid. We saw exactly the same populist principles applied to the UK Brexit leave campaign with stunning success and I think we can expect more of this throughout Europe. In short Brexit or no Brexit, the EU have a very difficult road to walk in the next 5 years.

I don't think most of them have issues with freedom of movement inside Europe though (on here I read people that have issues with Polish speaking lads etc). I think it's like in Belgium [and I regularly visit the Netherlands since a considerable part of my family is Dutch]. The biggest conceived issue seems to be non-European migration. A lof of people would like even stricter outer EU borders. And truth be told a lot of member-states would be up for that (see the ones that refused to take in refugees etc; and are now being a bit of a pain in the arse). Quite difficult to reconcile that with basic values regarding humanity though. Says a lot that an easy way to win votes is returning record numbers, taking away double nationalities, stricter requirements etc...

The country has been damaged enormously by this shambles Pete. I don't think there's much cause for celebration even if Article 50 is revoked (as I would like). We haven't embarrassed ourselves on the international stage like this since Suez.

Bit of an overstatement I think. It's a badly managed referendum.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm not entirely sure if that was with me (this discussion keeps coming up). Could well be, this topic moves at a tremendous pace and tbh it's quite hard to keep track off. At any rate there's a whole group of countries that pay in more than they receive. Again if you divide a head it's not that bad compared to others (net contributers; so receive less than they put in) - you wouldn't want to be the Netherlands or Sweden then.

We'll have agree to disagree; the rules are there for everyone (if you're bored: https://publications.europa.eu/en/p...lication/8bc08dd0-f1ed-4f45-bab4-75ac2a63d048). If Poland (random pick) suddenly starts doing very well, they'll end up in a similar situation. A membership fee.

I'm talking about being able to compromise in negotiations. It's essential; look at the countries that have produced a whole range of prominent quality EU politicians. Germany, the Benelux countries, France etc... Your size (and how much you pay in etc...) doesn't necessarily dictate everything. If you're at the table when the deal is done you're in the game, and can steer the final outcome. Or alternatively you can beg like Cameron; and he still got something - a surprisingly good deal actually.



That's a bit problematic seeing that's probably a red line for a lot of the Brexiteers. Mind you I also love freedom of movement so I understand.

The UK leaving imo won't have an effect on that. There were issues even before that; for a variety of reasons. Italy, for different reasons - but seeing that they just got a secret deal (to the outrage of the Dutch; so they did disclose it but on the condition that it won't be released to the public) for their budget they'll be calm for a while. A lot of issues with those new countries could have been avoided though; it all went too fast, I just read the memoirs of the main negotiator for Belgium for that accession round. Was a shambles, they were warned, the UK wanted to rush it so they did. Luckily they were resisted on Turkey or the whole thing would be an even greater mess.



I don't think most of them have issues with freedom of movement inside Europe though (on here I read people that have issues with Polish speaking lads etc). I think it's like in Belgium [and I regularly visit the Netherlands since a considerable part of my family is Dutch]. The biggest conceived issue seems to be non-European migration. A lof of people would like even stricter outer EU borders. And truth be told a lot of member-states would be up for that (see the ones that refused to take in refugees etc; and are now being a bit of a pain in the arse). Quite difficult to reconcile that with basic values regarding humanity though. Says a lot that an easy way to win votes is returning record numbers, taking away double nationalities, stricter requirements etc...



Bit of an overstatement I think. It's a badly managed referendum.

I can't recall a time in recent history where our self perception has been so divorced from reality. We may have acted badly in the past, but seldom have we looked so dishonest and foolish.

 

[summerisle]

Nothing like a reasoned argument.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Nothing like a reasoned argument.

That's the bingo on a whole new level