Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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Armaghtoffee said:
Just for clarity, I didn’t question your beliefs at all, I said what I personally would reflect on if I found my vote aligned with the political desire of those bigots.

I am fully aware that there are varying reasons for voting leave and I did acknowledge that you have taken the time to articulate your own reasons.
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Fair enough mate.

In my experience, in discussions such as this when someone says "I personally would do such and such" what they really mean is "I think this is what you should do". If that was truly not your intention then I apologise if I took your post the wrong way.

Having said that, the underlying subject of the post is still valid. Those creeps are as far removed from me as you can possibly be.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
Fair enough mate.

In my experience, in discussions such as this when someone says "I personally would do such and such" what they really mean is "I think this is what you should do". If that was truly not your intention then I apologise if I took your post the wrong way.

Having said that, the underlying subject of the post is still valid. Those creeps are as far removed from me as you can possibly be.
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I do get the differing views on both sides as I’m sure my primary motivation for voting Remain is very different from other Remain voters.

However, what is grabbing the media attention re the Leave vote is the right wing elements now synonymous with it and I don’t think it will be easy to reclaim that narrative.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
As I've said numerous times the leave campaign does not represent me and people like me. They were and indeed continue to be, an embarrassment to me. Tommy Robinson and his thugs are just vile creatures. They are most certainly not my political bedfellows.

But to say that I should question my beliefs just because they use Brexit as a platform to promote their filth is like saying I should stop supporting Everton because a handful of supporters went on the razz in Millwall.

The sad fact is there are a lot of remain supporters out there who are quite happy to believe that these sickos represent the leave contingent, purely because it fits with their own image of the typical Brexit voter.
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Rees Mogg actively promoting the AfD in Germany, who have aired the kind of Islamophobic views that would make Robinson blush. This is the chairman of a group whose deputy chairman believes he single-handedly beat off fascists during the war.

I suppose the truly ironic thing is that many Mogg supporters would cry foul if every Muslim in Britain wasn't bemoaning terrorist incidents committed by Islamic terrorists, yet I dare say there will be no criticism of Mogg by any supporters of the ERG.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
It's actually been like that since the very start. You just need to go back in this thread to the day of the referendum result. Nothing has changed really.
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Lazy journalism. What is being pushed is the extremes. Which is why people are believing that being asked 'how' they want Brexit to happen is undemocratic.

Likewise, if people don't want to be aligned with bigots, racists and facists, they need to decry it when they are given a platform on Brexit. Understand the motivations and subtext to what's being said rather than simply applauding their in viewpoint.

I've seen people that 'would never support facists' actively applauding the AfD and far right groups advocating for Brexit simply because they shout 'Brexit means Brexit'.
 
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Barnfred 55 said:
As I've said numerous times the leave campaign does not represent me and people like me. They were and indeed continue to be, an embarrassment to me. Tommy Robinson and his thugs are just vile creatures. They are most certainly not my political bedfellows.

But to say that I should question my beliefs just because they use Brexit as a platform to promote their filth is like saying I should stop supporting Everton because a handful of supporters went on the razz in Millwall.

The sad fact is there are a lot of remain supporters out there who are quite happy to believe that these sickos represent the leave contingent, purely because it fits with their own image of the typical Brexit voter.
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I don't buy your Everton analogy at all.
As far as I can see, immigration/freedom of movement is a major reason for voting to leave. What happened on Friday was an extreme manifestation of an anti immigration theme that permeates the leave campaign.

You've been a very reasonable poster Barnfred but I'm still at a loss as to why you want to leave.
Is it sovereignty/nationalism?
Is it immigration?
Is it economics?
Is it that you don't feel represented in Europe?
Is it a fear of a European super state (remembering that the UK has/had a veto)

What happened on Friday was fringe extremists given a main stream platform thanks to a national campaign of fear, hate, division and misinformation.
I'm not having a go, just trying to divide the sentiment that leads to Robinson et al from the other reasons people want to leave.
 
roydo said:
Why now? And more to the point, what is the point?
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I can see Common Market 2.0 getting a majority tonight. May would call election to dissolve parliament to avoid it. Or she could resign and we'd have one.

Oh, and for no point of course.
 
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