Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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I'm totally resigned to a right mess when we actually take our leave from the club.
That I situation I place firmly and squarely at the feet of our elected officials who have made a right dogs breakfast of the whole affair.
I'm picking up on the increase of scare stories making headlines. Food, medicines now, is this the Project Fear that people talk of?
This takes me back a few years to the Doomsday scenarios surrounding Y2K, remember that. Planes falling out of the sky, computers starting WW3 and so on. Nothing happened. Anybody getting spooked by all of this?
 

Still not understanding the difference between a question and then the actual mechanics of putting that in place where we are obviously not going to get a favourable deal. The government by forcing this through will just be inflicting great hardship on the country (unless by some miracle we get something half decent from the EU), do you understand that people didn't have the wherewithal to make that big a decision without knowing what would happen in the event of a no deal?

I can take a leave and then leave again result, I just don't want cry arsses complaing how they are worse off and would have never have voted for it if they had been told/understood the truth. The 2nd referendum gives that opportunity to make sure people are clear how this will go. Then it is their own fault what happens next while at the moment it is the collective fault of the people who started this (extreme tories), how the question was put, the false arguments on both sides and the government for failing to get a decent deal and then pushing on with it because if they don't the split in the part will collapse the government.
 
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tommytowne said:
I'm totally resigned to a right mess when we actually take our leave from the club.
That I situation I place firmly and squarely at the feet of our elected officials who have made a right dogs breakfast of the whole affair.
I'm picking up on the increase of scare stories making headlines. Food, medicines now, is this the Project Fear that people talk of?
This takes me back a few years to the Doomsday scenarios surrounding Y2K, remember that. Planes falling out of the sky, computers starting WW3 and so on. Nothing happened. Anybody getting spooked by all of this?
Click to expand...
Yes. I have started stockpiling food.
 
abelard said:
That doesn't really explain it away though. EU and especially EU15 Migration is a relatively small percentage of the total. And unlike with the EU, immigrants from non-EU countries tend be overqualified and underemployed relative to their UK counterparts. The Uber driver with the Engineering PhD is more than just a stereotype, and it's this sort of de facto professional class protectionism that I'm referring to.

We stand a better chance of preserving the values we cherish if we try a little bit harder to empathise with those who disagree (however irrational they might seem) rather than reaching for self-flattering bromides like: they are all "idiots have already made up their mind and will not listen to any kind of evidence"
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I wouldn't pretend that things are perfect, but the evidence we have suggests that free movement is far better than 'managed migration' and that migrants bring a vast amount to the country.

And for what its worth, there has been a lot of effort put into trying to understand the factors behind the vote, but the incoherence of the leave argument makes it utterly futile. There comes a point where enough is enough.
 
tommytowne said:
I'm totally resigned to a right mess when we actually take our leave from the club.
That I situation I place firmly and squarely at the feet of our elected officials who have made a right dogs breakfast of the whole affair.
I'm picking up on the increase of scare stories making headlines. Food, medicines now, is this the Project Fear that people talk of?
This takes me back a few years to the Doomsday scenarios surrounding Y2K, remember that. Planes falling out of the sky, computers starting WW3 and so on. Nothing happened. Anybody getting spooked by all of this?
Click to expand...

It’s a poor comparison though. As the issue was real but was tackled so averted. It’s like saying “remember the last time we were driving towards a brick wall?” Yeah we took evasive action

 
Bruce Wayne said:
I wouldn't pretend that things are perfect, but the evidence we have suggests that free movement is far better than 'managed migration' and that migrants bring a vast amount to the country.

And for what its worth, there has been a lot of effort put into trying to understand the factors behind the vote, but the incoherence of the leave argument makes it utterly futile. There comes a point where enough is enough.
Click to expand...

Though it is often related, anti-immigration sentiment it is not the same as support for Brexit.

Again, I'm not disputing the value of immigration; my point is that the impact, for better and for worse, is experienced very differently across class and regional lines, which sweeping aggregate-data studies tend to overlook.

In any case, the critical premise that every pro-immigration economist relies on is that benefits from immigration require equitable state redistribution, to ensure that "losers" are compensated and that everyone really does stand to gain.

Britain, on the other hand, has spent the last eight years fanatically assaulting the very concept of the redistributive state.

In political terms, it's probably safe to say that you can have austerity or a consensus behind robust immigration, but not both - which the Tories, whatever else, seem to grasp.
 
tommytowne said:
I'm totally resigned to a right mess when we actually take our leave from the club.
That I situation I place firmly and squarely at the feet of our elected officials who have made a right dogs breakfast of the whole affair.
I'm picking up on the increase of scare stories making headlines. Food, medicines now, is this the Project Fear that people talk of?
This takes me back a few years to the Doomsday scenarios surrounding Y2K, remember that. Planes falling out of the sky, computers starting WW3 and so on. Nothing happened. Anybody getting spooked by all of this?
Click to expand...
No its project fear again.... going to the bottom of the barrel if they have to.....
1534946126864.webp
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
It’s a poor comparison though. As the issue was real but was tackled so averted. It’s like saying “remember the last time we were driving towards a brick wall?” Yeah we took evasive action

Click to expand...


Didn't think about it before I read your post but I was hired for the company I still work for now off the back of trying to prep for Y2K. We had to reprogram the code to ensure it could handle 4 digits (no jokes bout KY jelly allowing you to put 4 digits in your date! :D ). It looks like my company is already downsizing in preparation for Brexit with a lot of staff being laid off, so we have one 'project fear' that actually created my job and we have this other 'project fear' that could very well take it away.

Kind of nice symmetry to it don't you think? Also helps provide a bit of colour why it is a crap example for the brexiteers to use.
 
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