Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Harryflashman]

I see there is a report out showing how for the first time since the war, that I.Q. Levels are lower in the younger generations compared to their elders.......

Can they use google though ?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

In all seriousness you do wonder , other than the NHS bus , what facts were doing the rounds before the vote and people were convinced were true .

I’ve said a couple of times in a couple of threads we are in a post truth world , the facts just don’t seem to matter any more . People say things and they aren’t true and they just repeat them and that’s that .

Banks and Wigmore sat in front of the Commons Select Committee yesterday and brazenly admitted that they ‘led people up the garden path’ over Brexit.

They said that referendums weren’t about facts they were about emotion and they had to tap into that emotion. They also said that they told the best stories in order to be provocative, when quizzed on what the difference was between provocation and lies, they said you could call it either.

Dominic Cummings had already admitted that the NHS bus lie was something that they knew wasn’t factual, but their research had showed it was pivotal in shifting the opinion of waiverers in favour of Leave.

So facts seemingly didn’t matter a jot, lies were the order of the day, and it’s seemingly OK in their world to now admit that, as they achieved their aim.

Democracy at its finest lads.

 

[bobbydigital]

If I'm being generous and rounding up the final leave score to 52% and 65% of all labours voters voted leave and 61% of Tory scum voted leave, where are all the remainers coming from to bring it down to 52%?

UKIP if you use Joe's maths

 

[peteblue]

Banks and Wigmore sat in front of the Commons Select Committee yesterday and brazenly admitted that they ‘led people up the garden path’ over Brexit.

They said that referendums weren’t about facts they were about emotion and they had to tap into that emotion. They also said that they told the best stories in order to be provocative, when quizzed on what the difference was between provocation and lies, they said you could call it either.

Dominic Cummings had already admitted that the NHS bus lie was something that they knew wasn’t factual, but their research had showed it was pivotal in shifting the opinion of waiverers in favour of Leave.

So facts seemingly didn’t matter a jot, lies were the order of the day, and it’s seemingly OK in their world to now admit that, as they achieved their aim.

Democracy at its finest lads.

But that George Osborne though eh, eh, eh.......

 

[Harryflashman]

Banks and Wigmore sat in front of the Commons Select Committee yesterday and brazenly admitted that they ‘led people up the garden path’ over Brexit.

They said that referendums weren’t about facts they were about emotion and they had to tap into that emotion. They also said that they told the best stories in order to be provocative, when quizzed on what the difference was between provocation and lies, they said you could call it either.

Dominic Cummings had already admitted that the NHS bus lie was something that they knew wasn’t factual, but their research had showed it was pivotal in shifting the opinion of waiverers in favour of Leave.

So facts seemingly didn’t matter a jot, lies were the order of the day, and it’s seemingly OK in their world to now admit that, as they achieved their aim.

Democracy at its finest lads.

It’s not even just the lies for me it’s that people explain it or aren’t even concerned like the RS do with their players . It’s not something I’m comfortable with but perhaps that’s just my personality.

I’ve said plenty of times I accept democracy and the result but like with trump those who trumpet sovereignty don’t seem remotely concerned about the possible links of a foreign nation to the result . It’s as if they think it’s undermines them so that’s more important ,if you compare the EU to nazi Germany surely you’d be shouting from the rooftops if there was even a chance that an actual totalitarian regime had tried to influence the vote ?

I hasten to add I don’t know all the facts but it all feels very murky.

 

[Ruairi77]

In all seriousness you do wonder , other than the NHS bus , what facts were doing the rounds before the vote and people were convinced were true .

I’ve said a couple of times in a couple of threads we are in a post truth world , the facts just don’t seem to matter any more . People say things and they aren’t true and they just repeat them and that’s that .

yup. It's funny that the Brexiters are wheeling out the 'Project Fear' line any time anyone voices valid concerns.
I wasn't in the UK during the campaign but I did see images of Farages 'Breaking Point' poster. There was no facts, no figures, just a picture of thousands of people queuing up. I reckon the narrative behind this poster was what carried the Brexit vote. But as Pete says, UKIP had a job to do and they're no longer needed.
Seems their job was to lie and deceive in order to divide a country.
Facts don't matter here in the States either. This is not just happening by chance. The erosion of trust in western democracies is an intentional plan.

 

[Harryflashman]

But that George Osborne though eh, eh, eh.......

I consciously mentioned him and his budget the other day when I mentioned lies . That’s what I’m saying I’m not engaging in whataboutery I’m trying to pull up those that lie even if it supports my position .

 

[peteblue]

yup. It's funny that the Brexiters are wheeling out the 'Project Fear' line any time anyone voices valid concerns.
I wasn't in the UK during the campaign but I did see images of Farages 'Breaking Point' poster. There was no facts, no figures, just a picture of thousands of people queuing up. I reckon the narrative behind this poster was what carried the Brexit vote. But as Pete says, UKIP had a job to do and they're no longer needed.
Seems their job was to lie and deceive in order to divide a country.
Facts don't matter here in the States either. This is not just happening by chance. The erosion of trust in western democracies is an intentional plan.

Erosion of trust... even when we have a clear cut vote, we cannot trust our politicians to carry out the result......

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

It’s not even just the lies for me it’s that people explain it or aren’t even concerned like the RS do with their players . It’s not something I’m comfortable with but perhaps that’s just my personality.

I’ve said plenty of times I accept democracy and the result but like with trump those who trumpet sovereignty don’t seem remotely concerned about the possible links of a foreign nation to the result . It’s as if they think it’s undermines them so that’s more important ,if you compare the EU to nazi Germany surely you’d be shouting from the rooftops if there was even a chance that an actual totalitarian regime had tried to influence the vote ?

I hasten to add I don’t know all the facts but it all feels very murky.

I agree about it being murky. Take Farage ‘a person of interest’ in the US inquiry into Russian influence, who flatly denied having ever met any Russian officials, until he had to back track when pictures of him meeting the Russian ambassador surfaced.

I think the internet bot stuff is a side show and of little consequence, but I have severe doubts over the real source of some of the campaign funding delivered by the likes of Banks. If there is a genuine scandal that lies within this murky mess then it’ll be something along those lines imo.

 

[Ruairi77]

Erosion of trust... even when we have a clear cut vote, we cannot trust our politicians to carry out the result......

that's the problem, although the result was clear cut, the process of obtaining it wasn't. That's why carrying out the result is a mess.
Happening here too Pete.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Erosion of trust... even when we have a clear cut vote, we cannot trust our politicians to carry out the result......

Do you not see any irony or hypocrisy in the demand that democracy is upheld and the will of the people delivered......when the entire referendum appears to have been fought on the basis of who told the most convincing lies?

You can’t surely pontificate about a supposed erosion of trust on this issue, when they’ve collectively ‘led the public up the garden path’ by their own admission can you?

 

[peteblue]

that's the problem, although the result was clear cut, the process of obtaining it wasn't. That's why carrying out the result is a mess.
Happening here too Pete.

Makes you wonder why we bother having elections and votes if people do not accept the result.......

 

[peteblue]

Do you not see any irony or hypocrisy in the demand that democracy is upheld and the will of the people delivered......when the entire referendum appears to have been fought on the basis of who told the most convincing lies?

You can’t surely pontificate about a supposed erosion of trust on this issue, when they’ve collectively ‘led the public up the garden path’ by their own admission can you?

Have you ever lived through a general election ? If you want to talk about Lies just read the last labour manifesto and promises........

 

[Harryflashman]

Makes you wonder why we bother having elections and votes if people do not accept the result.......

Pete you started the thread on Corbyn being a spy I presume you’re deeply concerned if not appalled about these apparentl Russian links to banks , farage et al ?

 

[Armaghtoffee]

I have no problem with politicians forming political groupings.....

But why highlight Philip Lee not following the will of his constituents but then say you have no problems with May being aligned to Arlene Foster who is also not representing her constituent view?

Or is this not what you are actually saying?

It seems very inconsistent to me Pete.