Current Affairs EU In or Out

[tsubaki]

The problem of course is that the previous method is actually contained within the treaties....

Not since Lisbon - the relevant clause specifically says that the elections to the EP have to be taken into account.

Once you concede that, it in effect becomes Parliament's decision - that is why the EC rolled over when it was proposed; they knew where opposing it would lead.

 

[Ruairi77]

Indeed, but as I understand it, perhaps incorrectly, is that the European Council then have to nominate him by majority vote before the ratification vote in the parliament.....this is the battle currently going on between the EC and the EP....

but both the European Council and the European parliament are elected by the citizens of the EU.
So what's your issue again?
That he's not democratically elected?

It boils down to nationalism doesnt it Pete.

 

[peteblue]

but both the European Council and the European parliament are elected by the citizens of the EU.
So what's your issue again?
That he's not democratically elected?

It boils down to nationalism doesnt it Pete.

Then why are the EP fighting with the EC over the process.....

 

[peteblue]

Not since Lisbon - the relevant clause specifically says that the elections to the EP have to be taken into account.

Once you concede that, it in effect becomes Parliament's decision - that is why the EC rolled over when it was proposed; they knew where opposing it would lead.

Interesting times then, so who is in charge.....

 

[Ruairi77]

Then why are the EP fighting with the EC over the process.....

I'm not sure tbh.
There are always disagreements between branches of government, I'm sure a large section of the UK parliament want to change how the house of Lords operates.
It could be argued that a system with the house of commons, the house of lords and a monarchy is less democratic than the European system.
Sorry, I'm probably hurting your head with the thought.

 

[electricblue]

I'm not sure tbh.
There are always disagreements between branches of government, I'm sure a large section of the UK parliament want to change how the house of Lords operates.
It could be argued that a system with the house of commons, the house of lords and a monarchy is less democratic than the European system.
Sorry, I'm probably hurting your head with the thought.

Imagine living in a european country with a hereditary monarchy, an unelected upper chamber, and an archaic system of patronage for the continuation of the Establishment, and then complaining that the election of EU officials is undemocratic.

 

[peteblue]

I'm not sure tbh.
There are always disagreements between branches of government, I'm sure a large section of the UK parliament want to change how the house of Lords operates.
It could be argued that a system with the house of commons, the house of lords and a monarchy is less democratic than the European system.
Sorry, I'm probably hurting your head with the thought.

You are. The monarchy has no enabling powers, purely ceremonial, nor do the Lords, they are a revising chamber. Only parliament can do so, based on whatever manifesto they told the electorate they would do. In the EU we have a European Council who used to be in charge, with a European Parliament that joins many groups together to attain power but no one actually knows what they stand for because they are voted in on a local party basiswith no overriding manifesto. It’s a shambles really, we all know it but it has to be defended because it’s all you have........how many of the 3 presidents did you vote for........

 

[peteblue]

Imagine living in a european country with a hereditary monarchy, an unelected upper chamber, and an archaic system of patronage for the continuation of the Establishment, and then complaining that the election of EU officials is undemocratic.

See above.....

 

[Ruairi77]

You are. The monarchy has no enabling powers, purely ceremonial, nor do the Lords, they are a revising chamber. Only parliament can do so, based on whatever manifesto they told the electorate they would do. In the EU we have a European Council who used to be in charge, with a European Parliament that joins many groups together to attain power but no one actually knows what they stand for because they are voted in on a local party basiswith no overriding manifesto. It’s a shambles really, we all know it but it has to be defended because it’s all you have........how many of the 3 presidents did you vote for........

how many prime ministers have you voted for?
I'll give you the fact that the EU political system is confusing and messy. Who knows what the parties are and what they stand for, but it's a constantly evolving and changing system.
So no, I didn't vote for any president in particular, but I did vote for Mairead McGuinness who is/was my local MEP. She would canvas our area and I've chatted with her a bit about the workings of the parliament (she's vice president of the Parliament). So I voted for her in the confidence that she would make the right decisions on behalf of me.
This is the same as national elections, when I was resident in Ireland, I would vote for the TD I felt best represented my views, not the Taoiseach.

 

[peteblue]

how many prime ministers have you voted for?
I'll give you the fact that the EU political system is confusing and messy. Who knows what the parties are and what they stand for, but it's a constantly evolving and changing system.
So no, I didn't vote for any president in particular, but I did vote for Mairead McGuinness who is/was my local MEP. She would canvas our area and I've chatted with her a bit about the workings of the parliament (she's vice president of the Parliament). So I voted for her in the confidence that she would make the right decisions on behalf of me.
This is the same as national elections, when I was resident in Ireland, I would vote for the TD I felt best represented my views, not the Taoiseach.

I have voted, directly for at least one PM, granted he also happened to be my MP. At the beginning of each election we know who will be PM when we vote. The only time we don’t is when it is during the period of office and the PM resigns or dies. The next election gives the opportunity to reaffirm or reject. The EU has nothing with the same democratic power....

 

[tsubaki]

Interesting times then, so who is in charge.....

At the moment the Commission, but the moment there is any kind of movement that spans at least a part of the continent then the Parliament would be - in many ways the collapse of the cod-left (Pasok, the PS in France, New Labour over here, Labour in the Netherlands, the PSOE in Spain as well as the SPD in Germany to an extent) has been timely as it would probably have been them that rallied around some messianic Blair-like figure (ie: Blair) and we'd have had to put up with them and him for years.

Once they conceded the Presidency to the most successful group in the Parliament, the Commission was defeated. Once the Presidency goes to a group which holds the majority in the Parliament, the Commission is doomed - which would be a good thing, as it would finally bring about some democratic legitimacy to the whole process and we could start to have a proper discussion about what we the people want European union to look like.

 

[hullefc]

Imagine living in a european country with a hereditary monarchy, an unelected upper chamber, and an archaic system of patronage for the continuation of the Establishment, and then complaining that the election of EU officials is undemocratic.

And imagine having to swear allegiance, as a subject not a citizen, to an unelected monarchy.

"I (name of Member) swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God".

An odd thing to do in 'the mother of all parliaments' which is supposed to me admired all around the world.

UK institutes should not be held up as a beacon of enlightenment as it is out dated. Likewise, unelected people like the European Central Bank will be put in control when dealing with financial crisis e.g Portugal, Spain, Ireland and Greece.

 

[hullefc]

Taking back control!!!! Not for UK blue passports which were actually black in the 1970s. Poor people of Gateshead where UK passports are now produced, may lose their jobs. I wonder who has shares in Gemalto.

Brexit
Post-Brexit passports set to be made by Franco-Dutch firm
EU company Gemalto is understood to have outbid UK rival for £490m printing contract

Heather Stewart Political editor

Thu 22 Mar 2018 00.01 GMTLast modified on Thu 22 Mar 2018 00.55 GMT



Returning to a navy-blue passport would be a powerful symbol of independence to Brexiters. Photograph: Alamy Stock Photo
Britain’s post-Brexit blue passport is set to be made by a Franco-Dutch firm, according to reports.

Changing the colour from the burgundy favoured across the EU is regarded by some Brexiters as a powerful symbol of Britain’s restored sovereignty.

But it was reported that British firm De La Rue had lost out to Gemalto, which is listed on the French and Dutch stock exchanges, in the race to win the £490m printing job.

The Home Office last night insisted no final decision has yet been made on where the new passports would be printed. A spokeswoman said: “We are running a fair and open competition to ensure that the new contract delivers a high quality and secure product and offers the best value for money for customers.

“We do not require passports to be manufactured in the UK. A proportion of blank passport books are currently manufactured overseas, and there are no security or operational reasons why this would not continue.”

Theresa May told the House of Commons in February: “It is right that from autumn 2019 we will issue new blue and gold passports, which have always been the UK’s colours of choice for our passports. It is absolutely right that after we leave the European Union, we return to deciding the colour of passports that we want, not that the EU wants.”

At the time she said she couldn’t comment on individual bids; but Whitehall sources have suggested Gemalto has beaten British firm De La Rue to the job, expected to be worth almost £500m.

De La Rue issued a profit warning on Tuesday, telling investors its profits for the coming year are likely to be “at the lower end of the current consensus range” – but without giving further details.

Pro-Brexit former cabinet minister Priti Patel described the decision as perverse.

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The Liberal Democrat’s Brexit spokesman, Tom Brake, said: “The blue passport saga is turning into a farce. First it was established that we did not have to leave the EU to have blue passports. Now we learn that the passports will be printed by a foreign company. And to add insult to injury, we will pay over the odds for them because the value of the pound has fallen since Brexit and they will have to be imported.”

Eloise Todd, of pro-remain pressure group Best for Britain, said: “the new pro-Brexit blue passports were supposed to be a statement of intent and now we find out they are to be made by the French or the Dutch. The irony is unreal.”

Gemalto offers what its website calls an “end to end ePassport solution”, and is already involved in the production of 30 countries’ passports.

Under EU competition rules, large public procurement contracts must be offered to companies across the the bloc.

It is unclear how the government’s approach may change after Brexit, but countries seeking to strike new trade deals with the UK are likely to seek enhanced access to public contracts".

 

[peteblue]

Taking back control!!!! Not for UK blue passports which were actually black in the 1970s. Poor people of Gateshead where UK passports are now produced, may lose their jobs. I wonder who has shares in Gemalto.

Brexit
Post-Brexit passports set to be made by Franco-Dutch firm
EU company Gemalto is understood to have outbid UK rival for £490m printing contract

Heather Stewart Political editor

Thu 22 Mar 2018 00.01 GMTLast modified on Thu 22 Mar 2018 00.55 GMT



Returning to a navy-blue passport would be a powerful symbol of independence to Brexiters. Photograph: Alamy Stock Photo
Britain’s post-Brexit blue passport is set to be made by a Franco-Dutch firm, according to reports.

Changing the colour from the burgundy favoured across the EU is regarded by some Brexiters as a powerful symbol of Britain’s restored sovereignty.

But it was reported that British firm De La Rue had lost out to Gemalto, which is listed on the French and Dutch stock exchanges, in the race to win the £490m printing job.

The Home Office last night insisted no final decision has yet been made on where the new passports would be printed. A spokeswoman said: “We are running a fair and open competition to ensure that the new contract delivers a high quality and secure product and offers the best value for money for customers.

“We do not require passports to be manufactured in the UK. A proportion of blank passport books are currently manufactured overseas, and there are no security or operational reasons why this would not continue.”

Theresa May told the House of Commons in February: “It is right that from autumn 2019 we will issue new blue and gold passports, which have always been the UK’s colours of choice for our passports. It is absolutely right that after we leave the European Union, we return to deciding the colour of passports that we want, not that the EU wants.”

At the time she said she couldn’t comment on individual bids; but Whitehall sources have suggested Gemalto has beaten British firm De La Rue to the job, expected to be worth almost £500m.

De La Rue issued a profit warning on Tuesday, telling investors its profits for the coming year are likely to be “at the lower end of the current consensus range” – but without giving further details.

Pro-Brexit former cabinet minister Priti Patel described the decision as perverse.

Advertisement
The Liberal Democrat’s Brexit spokesman, Tom Brake, said: “The blue passport saga is turning into a farce. First it was established that we did not have to leave the EU to have blue passports. Now we learn that the passports will be printed by a foreign company. And to add insult to injury, we will pay over the odds for them because the value of the pound has fallen since Brexit and they will have to be imported.”

Eloise Todd, of pro-remain pressure group Best for Britain, said: “the new pro-Brexit blue passports were supposed to be a statement of intent and now we find out they are to be made by the French or the Dutch. The irony is unreal.”

Gemalto offers what its website calls an “end to end ePassport solution”, and is already involved in the production of 30 countries’ passports.

Under EU competition rules, large public procurement contracts must be offered to companies across the the bloc.

It is unclear how the government’s approach may change after Brexit, but countries seeking to strike new trade deals with the UK are likely to seek enhanced access to public contracts".

I can’t get overly excited about who produces our passports. We are leaving the EU, we are not becoming isolationist or protectionist, the intent is to trade with the world and that includes buying things from others......it’s a story for Remainers to salivate over.......

 

[hullefc]

I can’t get overly excited about who produces our passports. We are leaving the EU, we are not becoming isolationist or protectionist, the intent is to trade with the world and that includes buying things from others......it’s a story for Remainers to salivate over.......

I think the workers in Gateshead who work for De La Rue are 'overly excited' about their jobs. The Chief Executive Martin Sutherland is 'overly excited' about this, and said he will have to tell his workforce that they will not be making the new UK passports. Maybe people should tell the Scottish fishing industry to not get 'overly excited' about where the fish on British plates come from.

Brexit: Leavers in uproar over 'national humiliation ... - The Independent

It seems like the likes of arch 'remainers' Bill Cash, Farage and Patel are 'overly excited' and 'salivating over' this.

As Cash said, “I think it is incongruous to say the least. It is completely unnecessary and it is symbolically completely wrong.

“Whatever the conditions which led to the decision in terms of pricing, the fact is that this is a symbolic event.”

Or Patel,

"Former cabinet minister Priti Patel : “This should be a moment that we should be celebrating. The return of our iconic blue passport will re-establish the British identity.

“But to be putting the job in the hands of the French is simply astonishing. It is a national humiliation.

“I would urge Amber Rudd and the Government to look again at the powers they have to see what they can do.”

Someone needs to tell those spouting about 'iconic blue passports' when in fact they were black.

But this is another humiliating own goal for May and those in government that claim they want to 'take back control'.