Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
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It's about proportion Bruce - the Polictical power the EU has , and is seeking more!
Oh and the cheap tax they pay it's like comparing apples and pears budget wise on that chart - as it's about power!
We voted to leave to become a big player in trade, and our courts - let's see!
Independence may not be a bad thing in the future the way the EU is heading!

You're shifting the goalposts Joe. The accusation has been labelled several times that the EU is undemocratic, stuffed full of people we have no control over. That's simple not true. This is what I mean earlier about learning. You have points clearly shown to you, and rather than take them on board, you move onto some other apparent ill of the EU that vexes you and justifies your decision. There is literally nothing in the world that can change your mind.
 
You're shifting the goalposts Joe. The accusation has been labelled several times that the EU is undemocratic, stuffed full of people we have no control over. That's simple not true. This is what I mean earlier about learning. You have points clearly shown to you, and rather than take them on board, you move onto some other apparent ill of the EU that vexes you and justifies your decision. There is literally nothing in the world that can change your mind.
Bruce why would I change my mind I voted Out- if you think the EU is VFM then watch that BBC 2 Jeremy Paxman documentary on the EU cost - it's an eye opener - every detail of the cost of moving their Parliment every 6 months their pay and perks etc etc it is not comparable with our system which is in need of overhauling!
If the remain camp was strong the LibDems would be surging in the polls.........Any democrat would accept the referendum-
happy new year
To you and your family sincerely all the best
 
Bruce why would I change my mind I voted Out- if you think the EU is VFM then watch that BBC 2 Jeremy Paxman documentary on the EU cost - it's an eye opener - every detail of the cost of moving their Parliment every 6 months their pay and perks etc etc it is not comparable with our system which is in need of overhauling!
If the remain camp was strong the LibDems would be surging in the polls.........Any democrat would accept the referendum-
happy new year
To you and your family sincerely all the best

You make my point better than I ever could Joe. Happy new year to you too.
 
Your point is pointless as we are leaving Bruce the clock is ticking one year!

I don't think you've been following things have you Joe? May said before Christmas we won't be doing anything that compromises the good Friday agreement. In other words, we aren't going to leave at all. It'll be the Norway model sold as something grand to please people like yourself.
 
I don't think you've been following things have you Joe? May said before Christmas we won't be doing anything that compromises the good Friday agreement. In other words, we aren't going to leave at all. It'll be the Norway model sold as something grand to please people like yourself.

We will politically out Bruce already trade agreements with other countries in the pipeline ;)
 
S.africa, Saudi, Israel, indonesia. Nice one. Are we allowed to discuss trade with third parties yet?
From acorns oak trees grow you forget the commonwealth, and countries the EU hike up the tariffs that will also help to reduce the Foriegn aid budget by free trade !
How you make put the EU is the B all and end all is amazing that's why you lost the referendum
 
Last edited:
Joe (others can answer too if you like), 18 months ago David Davis proclaimed that within two years the UK would have negotiated a free trade area considerably larger than the EU.

https://www.conservativehome.com/pl...0-a-brexit-economic-strategy-for-britain.html

"I would expect the new Prime Minister on September 9th to immediately trigger a large round of global trade deals with all our most favoured trade partners. I would expect that the negotiation phase of most of them to be concluded within between 12 and 24 months.

So within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. Trade deals with the US and China alone will give us a trade area almost twice the size of the EU, and of course we will also be seeking deals with Hong Kong, Canada, Australia, India, Japan, the UAE, Indonesia – and many others."

How's that one working out?
 
Joe (others can answer too if you like), 18 months ago David Davis proclaimed that within two years the UK would have negotiated a free trade area considerably larger than the EU.

https://www.conservativehome.com/pl...0-a-brexit-economic-strategy-for-britain.html

"I would expect the new Prime Minister on September 9th to immediately trigger a large round of global trade deals with all our most favoured trade partners. I would expect that the negotiation phase of most of them to be concluded within between 12 and 24 months.

So within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. Trade deals with the US and China alone will give us a trade area almost twice the size of the EU, and of course we will also be seeking deals with Hong Kong, Canada, Australia, India, Japan, the UAE, Indonesia – and many others."

How's that one working out?

Been too busy making our own rules and lobbing a fortune at the NHS.
 
Mr. Davies may be surprised, but i'm certainly not:

Opinion
The Tory trade bill would usher in the worst bits of TTIP – it must be stopped
Geraint Davies
This legislation for post-Brexit Britain is not just bad law, it’s dangerous, allowing for deals without parliamentary scrutiny
Mon 8 Jan ‘18 09.00 GMTLast modified on Mon 8 Jan ‘1809.01 GMT



The government’s trade bill has its second reading on Tuesday, something which has gone unnoticed by many campaigners and commentators, let alone the wider population. And that’s a problem. Anyone who cares about democracy, our nation’s prosperity and the future of post-Brexit Britain, should care deeply. It is nowhere near as innocuous as it sounds. It’s a Trojan horse.

If allowed to pass through parliament without significant changes, it would give ministers unprecedented powers to bypass parliamentary scrutiny in forming future trading relationships – with severe consequences for democracy, human rights and the power of multinational companies.

it aims to “assist in the transition of over 40 existing trade agreements between the EU and other countries”.

In other words, to copy and paste trading arrangements that the EU currently has with other non-EU countries, such as Turkey, so that the UK also keeps these trading arrangements after Brexit. That sounds like a no-brainer for remainers, who want to protect existing trade arrangements. But in reality, once we have left the EU, it’s not up to the UK government whether or not these trade agreements remain in place. We cannot assume that our trading partners will guarantee us the same terms: after all, the EU is the world’s largest trading bloc and largest economy; the UK is not.

Any sensible country would seek to renegotiate all trading terms with the UK – and the trade bill, even if supported by every British MP, can do nothing to stop that. So, the bill is flawed because it cannot do what it purports to.

But what it can do is far more dangerous. Ministers taking the power to copy and paste existing trade arrangements would also have the power to create and edit trade deals without parliamentary scrutiny. On that basis, Boris Johnson and Donald Trump would be allowed to agree a new trade deal behind closed doors without any democratic accountability.

Such a UK-US deal, unfettered, might include anything from antibiotic and hormone-impregnated meat and unsafe chemicals, to US entry into our NHS, and fracking in our countryside. That’s why the government has already declared that the US trade deals will be kept secret until four years after talks are concluded.

Before Brexit, I secured a parliamentary vote in favour of scrutiny of international trade deals such as the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), the proposed EU-US trade deal. I’m in favour of increasing international trade, but TTIP’s investor-state dispute system allowed multinational firms to sue national governments for passing laws which harmed their profits. Mexico was sued for a tax on sugary drinks to combat diabetes and Canada for a moratorium on fracking in Quebec.

If the UK passed laws to protect public health, our environment or rights at work then American firms could in theory sue for any lost profit. TTIP was abandoned. We cannot allow this bill to usher in its worst aspects in future trade deals under the cloak of darkness.

The bill needs public attention and a fundamental rethink. Parliamentary scrutiny and consent must be written into the bill, so that trade agreements are ultimately accountable to what is best for the British people, not what suits the interests of multinationals or the governing party.

Devolved administrations in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland must also have a say, with public consultation where necessary – particularly over controversial issues such as fracking, which can wreck local areas of natural beauty. Transparency is also essential. This not only fosters public trust, but also incentivises the government to tailor deals in the public interest.

Most of all, there must be a compensation mechanism for communities, businesses and groups adversely affected by future trade agreements. An independent body, or at the very least a parliamentary scrutiny committee, must be established to assess the impact, with particular reference to human rights, the environment and workers’ rights.

As this bill progresses beyond its second reading, I will be working with colleagues across the House of Commons to secure these amendments before it’s too late.

For what worries me most is the chilling vision we now have of what the Tories have in store for post-Brexit Britain. Cutting ourselves off from the European market is already costing the UK £350m a week, workers are losing a week’s pay a year due to inflation, and the divorce bill will cost each family a further £1,000. Rapidly putting together new bilateral trade deals without parliamentary or public scrutiny is no solution.

The UK’s weak negotiating position, combined with a desperate government peddling a toxic Brexit ideology, create the prospect of hidden costs in future trade deals. Those costs will be seen in our environment, our rights at work and public services. This isn’t what anyone voted for. It’s a veiled attack on our fundamental rights and protections. The time to resist is now.

• Geraint Davie
 
Mr. Davies may be surprised, but i'm certainly not:

Opinion
The Tory trade bill would usher in the worst bits of TTIP – it must be stopped
Geraint Davies
This legislation for post-Brexit Britain is not just bad law, it’s dangerous, allowing for deals without parliamentary scrutiny
Mon 8 Jan ‘18 09.00 GMTLast modified on Mon 8 Jan ‘1809.01 GMT



The government’s trade bill has its second reading on Tuesday, something which has gone unnoticed by many campaigners and commentators, let alone the wider population. And that’s a problem. Anyone who cares about democracy, our nation’s prosperity and the future of post-Brexit Britain, should care deeply. It is nowhere near as innocuous as it sounds. It’s a Trojan horse.

If allowed to pass through parliament without significant changes, it would give ministers unprecedented powers to bypass parliamentary scrutiny in forming future trading relationships – with severe consequences for democracy, human rights and the power of multinational companies.

it aims to “assist in the transition of over 40 existing trade agreements between the EU and other countries”.

In other words, to copy and paste trading arrangements that the EU currently has with other non-EU countries, such as Turkey, so that the UK also keeps these trading arrangements after Brexit. That sounds like a no-brainer for remainers, who want to protect existing trade arrangements. But in reality, once we have left the EU, it’s not up to the UK government whether or not these trade agreements remain in place. We cannot assume that our trading partners will guarantee us the same terms: after all, the EU is the world’s largest trading bloc and largest economy; the UK is not.

Any sensible country would seek to renegotiate all trading terms with the UK – and the trade bill, even if supported by every British MP, can do nothing to stop that. So, the bill is flawed because it cannot do what it purports to.

But what it can do is far more dangerous. Ministers taking the power to copy and paste existing trade arrangements would also have the power to create and edit trade deals without parliamentary scrutiny. On that basis, Boris Johnson and Donald Trump would be allowed to agree a new trade deal behind closed doors without any democratic accountability.

Such a UK-US deal, unfettered, might include anything from antibiotic and hormone-impregnated meat and unsafe chemicals, to US entry into our NHS, and fracking in our countryside. That’s why the government has already declared that the US trade deals will be kept secret until four years after talks are concluded.

Before Brexit, I secured a parliamentary vote in favour of scrutiny of international trade deals such as the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), the proposed EU-US trade deal. I’m in favour of increasing international trade, but TTIP’s investor-state dispute system allowed multinational firms to sue national governments for passing laws which harmed their profits. Mexico was sued for a tax on sugary drinks to combat diabetes and Canada for a moratorium on fracking in Quebec.

If the UK passed laws to protect public health, our environment or rights at work then American firms could in theory sue for any lost profit. TTIP was abandoned. We cannot allow this bill to usher in its worst aspects in future trade deals under the cloak of darkness.

The bill needs public attention and a fundamental rethink. Parliamentary scrutiny and consent must be written into the bill, so that trade agreements are ultimately accountable to what is best for the British people, not what suits the interests of multinationals or the governing party.

Devolved administrations in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland must also have a say, with public consultation where necessary – particularly over controversial issues such as fracking, which can wreck local areas of natural beauty. Transparency is also essential. This not only fosters public trust, but also incentivises the government to tailor deals in the public interest.

Most of all, there must be a compensation mechanism for communities, businesses and groups adversely affected by future trade agreements. An independent body, or at the very least a parliamentary scrutiny committee, must be established to assess the impact, with particular reference to human rights, the environment and workers’ rights.

As this bill progresses beyond its second reading, I will be working with colleagues across the House of Commons to secure these amendments before it’s too late.

For what worries me most is the chilling vision we now have of what the Tories have in store for post-Brexit Britain. Cutting ourselves off from the European market is already costing the UK £350m a week, workers are losing a week’s pay a year due to inflation, and the divorce bill will cost each family a further £1,000. Rapidly putting together new bilateral trade deals without parliamentary or public scrutiny is no solution.

The UK’s weak negotiating position, combined with a desperate government peddling a toxic Brexit ideology, create the prospect of hidden costs in future trade deals. Those costs will be seen in our environment, our rights at work and public services. This isn’t what anyone voted for. It’s a veiled attack on our fundamental rights and protections. The time to resist is now.

• Geraint Davie

What I've been saying all along. The robbery of the millennium.

One day they will write about this.

How to steal a country and get the people not only vote for it but pay for it too.
 
Joe (others can answer too if you like), 18 months ago David Davis proclaimed that within two years the UK would have negotiated a free trade area considerably larger than the EU.

https://www.conservativehome.com/pl...0-a-brexit-economic-strategy-for-britain.html

"I would expect the new Prime Minister on September 9th to immediately trigger a large round of global trade deals with all our most favoured trade partners. I would expect that the negotiation phase of most of them to be concluded within between 12 and 24 months.

So within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. Trade deals with the US and China alone will give us a trade area almost twice the size of the EU, and of course we will also be seeking deals with Hong Kong, Canada, Australia, India, Japan, the UAE, Indonesia – and many others."

How's that one working out?

Doesn't matter Bruce ok we're leaving and that's it !!
 
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