Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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yet why is it only our lot that demands public access and seeks to throw away negotiation information.......in fact I’d love to see the response from the EU for such a demand.......

It's as if people want to know what might happen before they commit to something.

Man holding gun to his own head: "Give me everything I want or I'll pull the trigger"

Experts: "If you pull the trigger, a bullet will enter your brain causing you to die"

Man: "STOP WEAKENING MY BARGAINING POSITION!"

The EU could release all its documents tomorrow, and I'm sure there are already ample studies and reports from the EU about what is likely to happen after Brexit, but neither will confirm Brexiters' expectations, they will be/are totally ignored.
 
It's as if people want to know what might happen before they commit to something.

Man holding gun to his own head: "Give me everything I want or I'll pull the trigger"

Experts: "If you pull the trigger, a bullet will enter your brain causing you to die"

Man: "STOP WEAKENING MY BARGAINING POSITION!"

The EU could release all its documents tomorrow, and I'm sure there are already ample studies and reports from the EU about what is likely to happen after Brexit, but neither will confirm Brexiters' expectations, they will be/are totally ignored.

Excellent, so just ask the EU for their documents......
 
-or gain, let's not presume...

(hahahaha)

Well yeah. I mean I spoke with a bloke from the Estonian government today, and via their E-Residency program they've got a fairly well honed sales pitch to try and attract businesses to that program. If our government wish to 'trade with the world'*, then you would hope they have a similarly honed sales pitch that would define the benefits of being in Britain post-Brexit. If they have such a vision, they're keeping it well hidden, which if things are as rosy as Davis et al no doubt imagine them to be, I'm not sure why they would not shout about our great future from the roof tops.

*I read an interesting study the other day from LSE on the general 'trading with the world' theme. It was looking at noted British companies and exploring not only where they export to, but the trends in those exports. For the bigger companies at least, a surprising number were already trading significantly outside the EU. BAe, for instance, trade significantly more outside Europe than inside it (I think it's 75/25 split or thereabouts).

Now, you could no doubt argue that's an example of the EU being a dying ship, not that important to us and all of that, but it must also surely torpedo this notion that our companies a) are restricted from 'trading with the world' by the EU, and b) once we leave our companies will trade much more as a result. The fact that they already do a significant amount of trade globally would surely cast doubt on both.
 
Iirc, I read in the Telegraph earlier that four uk law firms have exclusive rights in Korea because it was built into the EU trade deal with them, which they will obviously lose.
But yea, we've had no influence whatsoever...

Well yeah. I mean I spoke with a bloke from the Estonian government today, and via their E-Residency program they've got a fairly well honed sales pitch to try and attract businesses to that program. If our government wish to 'trade with the world'*, then you would hope they have a similarly honed sales pitch that would define the benefits of being in Britain post-Brexit. If they have such a vision, they're keeping it well hidden, which if things are as rosy as Davis et al no doubt imagine them to be, I'm not sure why they would not shout about our great future from the roof tops.

*I read an interesting study the other day from LSE on the general 'trading with the world' theme. It was looking at noted British companies and exploring not only where they export to, but the trends in those exports. For the bigger companies at least, a surprising number were already trading significantly outside the EU. BAe, for instance, trade significantly more outside Europe than inside it (I think it's 75/25 split or thereabouts).

Now, you could no doubt argue that's an example of the EU being a dying ship, not that important to us and all of that, but it must also surely torpedo this notion that our companies a) are restricted from 'trading with the world' by the EU, and b) once we leave our companies will trade much more as a result. The fact that they already do a significant amount of trade globally would surely cast doubt on both.
 
Well yeah. I mean I spoke with a bloke from the Estonian government today, and via their E-Residency program they've got a fairly well honed sales pitch to try and attract businesses to that program. If our government wish to 'trade with the world'*, then you would hope they have a similarly honed sales pitch that would define the benefits of being in Britain post-Brexit. If they have such a vision, they're keeping it well hidden, which if things are as rosy as Davis et al no doubt imagine them to be, I'm not sure why they would not shout about our great future from the roof tops.

*I read an interesting study the other day from LSE on the general 'trading with the world' theme. It was looking at noted British companies and exploring not only where they export to, but the trends in those exports. For the bigger companies at least, a surprising number were already trading significantly outside the EU. BAe, for instance, trade significantly more outside Europe than inside it (I think it's 75/25 split or thereabouts).

Now, you could no doubt argue that's an example of the EU being a dying ship, not that important to us and all of that, but it must also surely torpedo this notion that our companies a) are restricted from 'trading with the world' by the EU, and b) once we leave our companies will trade much more as a result. The fact that they already do a significant amount of trade globally would surely cast doubt on both.

The difference is that I suspect all Estonians would get behind their programmes to develop trade. We now seem to have large parts of the political class and ‘intelligentia’ who would wilfully undermine the U.K. in order to prove that we should remain.

There already is large amounts of trade undertaken by the U.K. with the RoW, indeed it already is more than trade with the EU and also shows a surplus. The RoW market is increasing while EU trade is decreasing. The issue is how to undertake free trade deals. Brexit has put a bomb under the EU to drive forward such deals, such as the Canadian deal, which is good, but these deals are still hamstrung by having to gain agreement from 28 countries and the Belgian regions. The U.K. will be able to move much faster once we leave.

Incidentally the BAE sales are also down to the fact that about 55% of the company is physically in the USA and arms deals to Saudi Arabia, India, Australia are even regarded as Home markets because of the BAE presence and are obtained in spite of our EU membership and not because of it. The U.K. is effectively open to arms sales from other European countries and USA companies while their own markets are effectively closed. Brexit may at least allow us to either demand free and competitive trade or resort to the protectionist way these other countries behave, a more level plying field.......
 
Post-brexit, trade with RoW will be very different. Looking at some of the key areas where we export (eg. Cars and Tech), the product is being built in the UK but a huge bulk is being made by foreign companies - some of who have already intimated that Brexit could mean that they leave Britain. Our trade surplus with the RoW could erode greatly in the years following Brexit as manufacturing and tech industries relocate into the EU block. When I was waiting on my Audi to be delivered last year, I was able to track it's build. I was shocked to discover that my German-built car was not German-built at all - it was being assembled Hungary. The q7 and some porsches are being assembled in Slovakia. Those are the countries that Asian car manufacturers will be looking to, post brexit. They're cheaper and are building the right infrastructure and workforce.

Then, we'd also need to look at our RoW trading partners. China and the US make up 20% of our export destinations - we have a major deficit with China too. Arguably these will be the two most ruthless and difficult trade deals for us to negotiate outside of the EU. Both know they hold all the cards when it comes to negotiation. The US have already shown their hand a little with the bombardier debacle. Is the UK a more important trader to the US and China than the EU is? Certainly not. Therefore, our bargaining power is diminished greatly. Deals in Asia will also likely come with a trade-off in terms of immigration laws.
 
Can’t see anything going wrong with this.......

EU-map-1122964.jpg
 
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