Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Old Blue 2]

So what if parliament decided to vote again?

So after the country has made one decision, you suggest they should feck around to try to change the decision, because some (the minority) didn't like it?

Look, we've gone through this merde for many hundreds of pages. No further reply from me to you on this point...

 

[Ruairi77]

So after the country has made one decision, you suggest they should feck around to try to change the decision, because some (the minority) didn't like it?

Look, we've gone through this merde for many hundreds of pages. No further reply from me to you on this point...

Fine, don't reply, but the concept of holding a second referendum is hardly alien. I voted no to the Lisbon treaty, there were changes made that I wanted to see and the vote was put to the people again. I voted yes the second time.

 

[SteveSC]

So after the country has made one decision, you suggest they should feck around to try to change the decision, because some (the minority) didn't like it?

Look, we've gone through this merde for many hundreds of pages. No further reply from me to you on this point...

Really? You think its possibly only a small handful of the 48% that wish for more talks and a possible decision to discuss voting again? and you are one of those call the remainers deluded and naive in this forum, pot and kettle comes to mind.

You also seem confident that none of the leave people would change their mind despite reports of the contrary. Also the fact that it has become one big mess seems to suggest people may now be skeptical of success.

If you are so confident the result will stand what are you so afraid of if it came to be that parliament went for a second vote?

As Ruairi pointed out things change information changes and a lot of the time attitudes change for people

Just because you are a hardened leave voter doesn't mean everyone else was also.

You guys can dismiss the fact the remain voters still believe people were misled all you want but the more your government bumbles along with the leave process the more credence it provides to those who say it was all lies and bluster

 

[peteblue]

Well, the referendum saw the people have their say - why shouldn't there be a fair vote of conscience in the House of Commons on leaving, where the MPs can make the choice based on what they have been elected to do; act in the best interests of their constituents?

It's all about "taking back control" after all, isn't it? So why not have parliament make a sovereign, non-whipped decision on it?

Or is that not allowed because reasons?

I think part of the problem is that a lot of the remainers will not accept a democratic vote and quite honestly cannot even be trusted to support the U.K. They are so determined that they know best that I would guess they would prefer to see a disastrous negotiation and deal for the U.K. so that they might ‘win their case’. Some of these people are veering towards becoming actual traitors. They have lost the plot, a decision was made, it should be about getting a good deal sorted out with the EU, but really they have not accepted the result, whatever they say, and are just aiding the EU negotiators......

 

[Armaghtoffee]

So after the country has made one decision, you suggest they should feck around to try to change the decision, because some (the minority) didn't like it?

Look, we've gone through this merde for many hundreds of pages. No further reply from me to you on this point...

Why say “feck around”? No need for dismissive language.

I said before that Ireland had to be a special consideration and you questioned why. Now Teresa May and the EU say that Ireland faces unique challenges. Has that changed your view or is Belfast just like Burnley, all in we’re gonna win?

 

[Old Blue 2]

1. Really? You think its possibly only a small handful of the 48% that wish for more talks and a possible decision to discuss voting again? and you are one of those call the remainers deluded and naive in this forum, pot and kettle comes to mind.

2. You also seem confident that none of the leave people would change their mind despite reports of the contrary. Also the fact that it has become one big mess seems to suggest people may now be skeptical of success.

3. If you are so confident the result will stand what are you so afraid of if it came to be that parliament went for a second vote?

4. As Ruairi pointed out things change information changes and a lot of the time attitudes change for people

5. Just because you are a hardened leave voter doesn't mean everyone else was also.

6. You guys can dismiss the fact the remain voters still believe people were misled all you want but the more your government bumbles along with the leave process the more credence it provides to those who say it was all lies and bluster

1. For you to say in a post what I think is wrong. You cannot call on what I am thinking, as only I know what I am thinking. That's basic...

2. I have not conducted any polls, so I cannot claim anything whatsoever with regards to how leave people are thinking presently. As for 'one big mess', (and I have pointed this out before), the Government are not going to public with every single minute detail of the negotiations. Those negotiations are akin to 'Commercial-inconfidence' in industry, so will not be made public. Did you really think otherwise?

3. I have never said any such thing (that the result will stand - whatever that means). The UK vote was taken, and the result was to leave. I don't know why some go on and on and on and on about another vote...

4. Nothing ever stands still. Works both ways.


5. What is the point of that remark? One might turn it around and say that just because there were hardened remain voters doesn't mean everyone else was also.

6. Both sides issued misleading statements. The leave voters on here freely admit to that; the remain voters appear (and I emphasise 'appear') to have a difficult time admitting that the remain campaign did so. It is 'my' Government in the sense it is the Government of the UK, of which I am a member, but as a lifelong Labour voter, the Conservatives are in no way 'my' party. I want shut of them as a ruling party in Parliament for good.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Why say “feck around”? No need for dismissive language.

I said before that Ireland had to be a special consideration and you questioned why. Now Teresa May and the EU say that Ireland faces unique challenges. Has that changed your view or is Belfast just like Burnley, all in we’re gonna win?

Having a lot of Irish blood in me, I'll say that if I wish. I do not take instruction from you...

 

[SteveSC]

1. For you to say in a post what I think is wrong. You cannot call on what I am thinking, as only I know what I am thinking. That's basic...

2. I have not conducted any polls, so I cannot claim anything whatsoever with regards to how leave people are thinking presently. As for 'one big mess', (and I have pointed this out before), the Government are not going to public with every single minute detail of the negotiations. Those negotiations are akin to 'Commercial-inconfidence' in industry, so will not be made public. Did you really think otherwise?

3. I have never said any such thing (that the result will stand - whatever that means). The UK vote was taken, and the result was to leave. I don't know why some go on and on and on and on about another vote...

4. Nothing ever stands still. Works both ways.


5. What is the point of that remark? One might turn it around and say that just because there were hardened remain voters doesn't mean everyone else was also.

6. Both sides issued misleading statements. The leave voters on here freely admit to that; the remain voters appear (and I emphasise 'appear') to have a difficult time admitting that the remain campaign did so. It is 'my' Government in the sense it is the Government of the UK, of which I am a member, but as a lifelong Labour voter, the Conservatives are in no way 'my' party. I want shut of them as a ruling party in Parliament for good.

1. I never said you were wrong. I said you are naive big difference. To suggest that only "some" of the 48% want a due over is naive. Pretty sure all of them would love it.

3. It's your tone to people who suggest it. You don't have to directly say something for it to be implied. You dismiss any mention of another vote and your logic is well we won tough simple as that.

5. Seriously? Not everyone is anti EU like you and others are. Probably at the time of voting they decided from the information given to them might make their homeland better off and so they took a chance. Does not they cannot be swayed by facts and figures to once again change their minds. How do you think democratic votes sway each election? You have your hardened supporters who will remain in their camp and those who will sit on the fence or the "undecided"

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Having a lot of Irish blood in me, I'll say that if I wish. I do not take instruction from you...

What instruction? Not sure when I questioned your right to say anything, regardless of your declared heritage. Do you think I would care if you were Dutch, German or Italian etc? I commented on your opinion, not your family tree.

I asked a question re the Brexit debate.

 

[Old Blue 2]

1. I never said you were wrong. I said you are naive big difference. To suggest that only "some" of the 48% want a due over is naive. Pretty sure all of them would love it.

3. It's your tone to people who suggest it. You don't have to directly say something for it to be implied. You dismiss any mention of another vote and your logic is well we won tough simple as that.

5. Seriously? Not everyone is anti EU like you and others are. Probably at the time of voting they decided from the information given to them might make their homeland better off and so they took a chance. Does not they cannot be swayed by facts and figures to once again change their minds. How do you think democratic votes sway each election? You have your hardened supporters who will remain in their camp and those who will sit on the fence or the "undecided"

1. I do believe you have misconstrued this: "...For you to say in a post what I think is wrong..." I will re-phrase it. You are incorrect to claim to know what I think at any given point in time. And very nice of you to call me naive.

3. Actually, it's the Government who are dismissing a further vote. And the result of the vote was made know, and now we are moving with it. Same as when May called an election. I was bitterly disappointed that Labour did not get in, but I accept the result (wel, we all obviously have to).

5. So I dont like the way the EU is run (I don't like the RS as well, for that matter). There are 'hardened supporters on both sides of the debate. I don't have a problem with that.

I'm quite relaxed about it all. And you go on about my 'tone to people'. I'm not the one going on and on. It's the remain advocates who are still going on about things, 16 months on. I'm just sitting here letting things take their course, as everyone else has to.

 

[peteblue]

1. I never said you were wrong. I said you are naive big difference. To suggest that only "some" of the 48% want a due over is naive. Pretty sure all of them would love it.

3. It's your tone to people who suggest it. You don't have to directly say something for it to be implied. You dismiss any mention of another vote and your logic is well we won tough simple as that.

5. Seriously? Not everyone is anti EU like you and others are. Probably at the time of voting they decided from the information given to them might make their homeland better off and so they took a chance. Does not they cannot be swayed by facts and figures to once again change their minds. How do you think democratic votes sway each election? You have your hardened supporters who will remain in their camp and those who will sit on the fence or the "undecided"

This is not about ‘hardened supporters’ it’s about democracy and the rule of law. A vote was taken, the result needs to stand, otherwise democracy is dead.......

 

[SteveSC]

1. I do believe you have misconstrued this: "...For you to say in a post what I think is wrong..." I will re-phrase it. You are incorrect to claim to know what I think at any given point in time. And very nice of you to call me naive.

3. Actually, it's the Government who are dismissing a further vote. And the result of the vote was made know, and now we are moving with it. Same as when May called an election. I was bitterly disappointed that Labour did not get in, but I accept the result (wel, we all obviously have to).

5. So I dont like the way the EU is run (I don't like the RS as well, for that matter). There are 'hardened supporters on both sides of the debate. I don't have a problem with that.

I'm quite relaxed about it all. And you go on about my 'tone to people'. I'm not the one going on and on. It's the remain advocates who are still going on about things, 16 months on. I'm just sitting here letting things take their course, as everyone else has to.

Fair enough mate

 

[Old Blue 2]

What instruction? Not sure when I questioned your right to say anything, regardless of your declared heritage. Do you think I would care if you were Dutch, German or Italian etc? I commented on your opinion, not your family tree.

I asked a question re the Brexit debate.

You questioned what I said. Here's part of your post: "...Why say “feck around”? No need for dismissive language..."

And the reason I said it, was because I wanted to. Is that a good enough explanation?

 

[SteveSC]

This is not about ‘hardened supporters’ it’s about democracy and the rule of law. A vote was taken, the result needs to stand, otherwise democracy is dead.......

Old blue know what i mean. Both sides of any vote have their hardened supporters that always vote the way they would traditionally and for the people traditionally.

You will always have on both sides a solid number then there are those who are not as loyal or who can be swayed

That's what i mean't and like i said old blue picked up on that.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Fair enough mate

As I've said before, Steve, all we all want is to come out the other side in as good a shape as possible. That is some years down the line, and the outcomes will, I think, be on somewhat of a slow-drip basis.

I would also hope to see another Labour Government in during my lifetime, but not ultimately what that snake Blair eventually turned it into...