Current Affairs EU In or Out
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peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Not me mate, I hate the mods.......
Please tell me you're kidding - very loudly into my ear trumpet!
Raphael_Hythloday
Player Valuation: £25k
Does it? Can you name one policy that indicates "public sector pay goes in cycles" please?
In which way have the Conservatives "sorted" the economy? This is entirely delusional. The GDP to debt ratio has grown quite significantly since 2010. I posted the evidence previously. In which way are the Conservatives fixing the economy?
It appears to me that the Conservative's greatest achievement is convincing the electorate - people like you - that they "sorting out" the economy when, in fact, the evidence suggests the precise opposite.
Perhaps it did. So what? Tuition isn't free, it is paid through taxation.
Extending your logic: the public is offered free healthcare via the NHS, should this be stopped? Is this a bribe? How is the offer for free tuition different to free TV licences for pensioners?
EU referendum and Brexit
UK business leaders to call for indefinite delay in leaving single market
Davis will be joined at the grace-and-favour government mansion in Kent by ministers from the Department for Business and the Treasury, who are known to be more sympathetic to the need for an extensive transition phase.
“With negotiations under way, the secretary of state for exiting the European Union is determined to bolster the government’s engagement with the business community on Brexit,” said a government source, announcing the crunch summit.
Other attendees, including the Engineering Employers Federation and British Chambers of Commerce, are known to be determined to use the event to highlight their members’ concerns about the pitfalls of the government’s current strategy.
Terry Scuoler, chief executive of the EEF, said: “The brinkmanship involved in taking Brexit negotiations to the line, while leaving businesses guessing about the likely outcome, risks causing serious economic damage.”
In a preview speech to the London School of Economics on Thursday, Fairbairn added: “The prospect of multiple cliff edges – in tariffs, red tape and regulation – is already casting a long shadow over business decisions. The result is a ‘drip drip’ of investment decisions deferred or lost.”
The CBI describes its proposed transition phase as a “common sense” and “limited” process, but it concedes that this would have to remain in place for as long as it takes to conclude a long-term free trade agreement with the EU.
“It’s essentially operating on the same rules we have now, almost like a rollover,” explained Rain Newton-Smith, the CBI’s chief economist, who was due to announce the plan in a joint lecture with Fairbairn. “This is not about whether we leave the EU, it’s about how ... this is a pragmatic way of leaving the EU.”
Five employers groups – including the Institute of Directors and Federation of Small Businesses – have been invited for five hours of talks from 10am to 3pm on Friday. As well as ministers from the Brexit and business departments there will be civil servants involved in Brexit talks and the economic secretary to the Treasury, Stephen Barclay. Several FTSE 100 chief executives are also rumoured to be coming, but not, as originally thought, the chancellor, Philip Hammond.
The Chevening estate was shared between the “Three Brexiteers” – Davis, Boris Johnson and the international trade secretary, Liam Fox – when Theresa May became prime minister after the referendum. A subsequent wrangle with trustees meant Johnson ended up as the “prime nominee”, but all three ministers have use of the palatial 115-room mansion.
The business summit comes as Labour stepped up the pressure by announcingthat Jeremy Corbyn will hold private talks with Barnier in Brussels next week. Chuka Umunna, a proponent of permanent single market membership, also welcomed the CBI proposal.
But the deep and prolonged transition phase proposed by business is likely to enrage Tory eurosceptics who believe it would amount to a betrayal of referendum aims to “bring back control”. It also poses multiple practical challenges for Downing Street, not least how to allow Fox’s trade department to continue negotiating trade deals elsewhere.
Adam Marshall, director general of the British Chambers of Commerce, said its members were “focused on outcomes rather than process” and it was up to the government to work out how to square such a transition with its political red lines, or come up with a better idea.
“Regardless of how they voted in the referendum, our members want to see certainty now,” he said.
“Firms tell us this feels like common sense,” added Fairbairn. “But if others have alternatives that deliver equivalent economic benefits, now is the time to put them on the table.”
The Brexit department declined to comment before the summit, and no agenda had been shared with business attendees by Thursday afternoon".
They have absolutely no faith in May and the Tories to get it right. Megaphone shouting to get their own way during negotiations was always going to go belly up.
The Tories will backtrack on Brexit means Brexit and will come up with some sort of free movement, but with visas paid for by those that want to come here to work. That way they can claim to have 'control' over numbers, even though they will rise, and shout how they have 'won'.
UK business leaders to call for indefinite delay in leaving single market
Davis will be joined at the grace-and-favour government mansion in Kent by ministers from the Department for Business and the Treasury, who are known to be more sympathetic to the need for an extensive transition phase.
“With negotiations under way, the secretary of state for exiting the European Union is determined to bolster the government’s engagement with the business community on Brexit,” said a government source, announcing the crunch summit.
Other attendees, including the Engineering Employers Federation and British Chambers of Commerce, are known to be determined to use the event to highlight their members’ concerns about the pitfalls of the government’s current strategy.
Terry Scuoler, chief executive of the EEF, said: “The brinkmanship involved in taking Brexit negotiations to the line, while leaving businesses guessing about the likely outcome, risks causing serious economic damage.”
In a preview speech to the London School of Economics on Thursday, Fairbairn added: “The prospect of multiple cliff edges – in tariffs, red tape and regulation – is already casting a long shadow over business decisions. The result is a ‘drip drip’ of investment decisions deferred or lost.”
The CBI describes its proposed transition phase as a “common sense” and “limited” process, but it concedes that this would have to remain in place for as long as it takes to conclude a long-term free trade agreement with the EU.
“It’s essentially operating on the same rules we have now, almost like a rollover,” explained Rain Newton-Smith, the CBI’s chief economist, who was due to announce the plan in a joint lecture with Fairbairn. “This is not about whether we leave the EU, it’s about how ... this is a pragmatic way of leaving the EU.”
Five employers groups – including the Institute of Directors and Federation of Small Businesses – have been invited for five hours of talks from 10am to 3pm on Friday. As well as ministers from the Brexit and business departments there will be civil servants involved in Brexit talks and the economic secretary to the Treasury, Stephen Barclay. Several FTSE 100 chief executives are also rumoured to be coming, but not, as originally thought, the chancellor, Philip Hammond.
The Chevening estate was shared between the “Three Brexiteers” – Davis, Boris Johnson and the international trade secretary, Liam Fox – when Theresa May became prime minister after the referendum. A subsequent wrangle with trustees meant Johnson ended up as the “prime nominee”, but all three ministers have use of the palatial 115-room mansion.
The business summit comes as Labour stepped up the pressure by announcingthat Jeremy Corbyn will hold private talks with Barnier in Brussels next week. Chuka Umunna, a proponent of permanent single market membership, also welcomed the CBI proposal.
But the deep and prolonged transition phase proposed by business is likely to enrage Tory eurosceptics who believe it would amount to a betrayal of referendum aims to “bring back control”. It also poses multiple practical challenges for Downing Street, not least how to allow Fox’s trade department to continue negotiating trade deals elsewhere.
Adam Marshall, director general of the British Chambers of Commerce, said its members were “focused on outcomes rather than process” and it was up to the government to work out how to square such a transition with its political red lines, or come up with a better idea.
“Regardless of how they voted in the referendum, our members want to see certainty now,” he said.
“Firms tell us this feels like common sense,” added Fairbairn. “But if others have alternatives that deliver equivalent economic benefits, now is the time to put them on the table.”
The Brexit department declined to comment before the summit, and no agenda had been shared with business attendees by Thursday afternoon".
They have absolutely no faith in May and the Tories to get it right. Megaphone shouting to get their own way during negotiations was always going to go belly up.
The Tories will backtrack on Brexit means Brexit and will come up with some sort of free movement, but with visas paid for by those that want to come here to work. That way they can claim to have 'control' over numbers, even though they will rise, and shout how they have 'won'.
When all else is failing, blame the state controlled BBC. Fox is complaining about the BBC's Brexit coverage even though it is controlled by the Tories at the BBC, which has become the training ground for Tories who want to get to work inside the Tory party.
BBC
Liam Fox: BBC would rather see Britain fail than Brexit succeed
But opposition parties say international trade secretary is in ‘cloud cuckoo land’ and ‘looks like Trump without the perma-tan’
Liam Fox’s comments were described as a ‘silly attack’ on the media. Photograph: Daniel Leal-Olivas/AFP/Getty
Rowena Mason Deputy political editor
Thursday 6 July 2017 13.57 BSTLast modified on Thursday 6 July 2017 16.09 BST
Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, has claimed the BBC would rather see Britain fail than Brexit succeed, making him the second Eurosceptic cabinet minister to attack the broadcaster for its coverage of the UK’s departure from the EU.
Fox, who unsuccessfully stood for the leadership of the Conservative party last year, made the comments in response to concerns from Tory MP Nigel Evans that negative media coverage was undermining efforts to make trade deals with non-EU countries.
Speaking in the House of Commons, Fox said: “It does appear that some elements of our media would rather see Britain fail than see Brexit succeed. I cannot recall a single time in recent times when I have seen good economic news that the BBCdidn’t describe as ‘despite Brexit’.”
His comments came after Andrea Leadsom, the leader of the House of Commons, called for broadcasters to be “a bit patriotic” about Brexit during an interview with BBC Newsnight last month.
Labour veteran Barry Sheerman branded Fox’s intervention a “silly attack” on the BBC, and called for the minister to resign amid claims he had lost the confidence of manufacturers for “living in cloud cuckoo land” over Britain’s future.
Alistair Carmichael, the Liberal Democrat chief whip, went on to describe Fox as “Donald Trump without the perma-tan” as he accused him of trying to shift attention away from his own department’s record.
“A government minister attacking the media in this way is a dangerous and misplaced intervention,” Carmichael said. “Mr Fox should get on with the work of government rather than trying to deflect from the failings of his department. It is extraordinary that Mr Fox feels it is appropriate to attack the media. He looks like Donald Trump without the perma-tan.
“He may, of course, be trying to distract us from the official data today that shows the number of jobs created by foreign investment fell by 9% last year.”
Later, Theresa May’s official spokesman distanced the prime minister from Fox’s remarks, while stressing the freedom of the media. “It’s a matter for newspapers, broadcasters and others to determine the tone and content of their own coverage,” the spokesman said.
He added: “The prime minister has always been clear on the need to have a free press and free media in this country.”
The BBC is bound by its royal charter and agreement to be impartial, but Conservative rightwingers have long claimed the corporation is dominated by leftwingers, leading to politically biased coverage.
In fact, a number of high-profile BBC journalists have made the leap into Conservative politics, including Craig Oliver, David Cameron’s ex-director of communications, who was a former editor of the News at Ten, and Thea Rogers, a BBC producer for the political editor, who became George Osborne’s chief of staff.
More recently, two BBC journalists have been in the running for the current top job in No 10 communications. Robbie Gibb, who heads the BBC’s operations at Westminster, is one of the favourites, while James Landale, the diplomatic editor and former deputy political editor, was approached but decided not to apply".
The Tories are getting a pasting from business about their pathetic Brexit strategy, and this is the best they can come up with. Mind he had to start saying something after he has been hiding in his bunker for the last 3 months.
BBC
Liam Fox: BBC would rather see Britain fail than Brexit succeed
But opposition parties say international trade secretary is in ‘cloud cuckoo land’ and ‘looks like Trump without the perma-tan’
Liam Fox’s comments were described as a ‘silly attack’ on the media. Photograph: Daniel Leal-Olivas/AFP/Getty
Rowena Mason Deputy political editor
Thursday 6 July 2017 13.57 BSTLast modified on Thursday 6 July 2017 16.09 BST
Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, has claimed the BBC would rather see Britain fail than Brexit succeed, making him the second Eurosceptic cabinet minister to attack the broadcaster for its coverage of the UK’s departure from the EU.
Fox, who unsuccessfully stood for the leadership of the Conservative party last year, made the comments in response to concerns from Tory MP Nigel Evans that negative media coverage was undermining efforts to make trade deals with non-EU countries.
Speaking in the House of Commons, Fox said: “It does appear that some elements of our media would rather see Britain fail than see Brexit succeed. I cannot recall a single time in recent times when I have seen good economic news that the BBCdidn’t describe as ‘despite Brexit’.”
His comments came after Andrea Leadsom, the leader of the House of Commons, called for broadcasters to be “a bit patriotic” about Brexit during an interview with BBC Newsnight last month.
Labour veteran Barry Sheerman branded Fox’s intervention a “silly attack” on the BBC, and called for the minister to resign amid claims he had lost the confidence of manufacturers for “living in cloud cuckoo land” over Britain’s future.
Alistair Carmichael, the Liberal Democrat chief whip, went on to describe Fox as “Donald Trump without the perma-tan” as he accused him of trying to shift attention away from his own department’s record.
“A government minister attacking the media in this way is a dangerous and misplaced intervention,” Carmichael said. “Mr Fox should get on with the work of government rather than trying to deflect from the failings of his department. It is extraordinary that Mr Fox feels it is appropriate to attack the media. He looks like Donald Trump without the perma-tan.
“He may, of course, be trying to distract us from the official data today that shows the number of jobs created by foreign investment fell by 9% last year.”
Later, Theresa May’s official spokesman distanced the prime minister from Fox’s remarks, while stressing the freedom of the media. “It’s a matter for newspapers, broadcasters and others to determine the tone and content of their own coverage,” the spokesman said.
He added: “The prime minister has always been clear on the need to have a free press and free media in this country.”
The BBC is bound by its royal charter and agreement to be impartial, but Conservative rightwingers have long claimed the corporation is dominated by leftwingers, leading to politically biased coverage.
In fact, a number of high-profile BBC journalists have made the leap into Conservative politics, including Craig Oliver, David Cameron’s ex-director of communications, who was a former editor of the News at Ten, and Thea Rogers, a BBC producer for the political editor, who became George Osborne’s chief of staff.
More recently, two BBC journalists have been in the running for the current top job in No 10 communications. Robbie Gibb, who heads the BBC’s operations at Westminster, is one of the favourites, while James Landale, the diplomatic editor and former deputy political editor, was approached but decided not to apply".
The Tories are getting a pasting from business about their pathetic Brexit strategy, and this is the best they can come up with. Mind he had to start saying something after he has been hiding in his bunker for the last 3 months.
Gouldy
Player Valuation: £1m
You shouldn't conflate personal/private individual debt with government debt. They are different beasts, given UK govt. prints it's own currency, and thus are governed by differing economic principles.
And you ought to think of the deficit in relation to GDP growth - simply on it's own, it is a useless figure. Also, it is worth noting that Labour advocated for some investment spending, which can help to grow economies - austerity often shrinks economies or creates minimal growth.
As I've pointed out before though, UK gdp has only grown at higher than current rock bottom interest rates a handful of times in the last 30 years. The idea we can outgrow the costs of borrowing isn't based on much evidence.
I know how we can increase productivity.
Kick out all the hard working migrants.
Kick out all the hard working migrants.
I don't get this 'blame the media' attitude we have here.
It's not just the right, we the left are just as bad for it.
At the end of the day, the media are the best people for keeping people in check and asking questions that otherwise would be ignored. Accountability is everything.
My greatest concern going forward is how badly we're dealing with the negotiations. Despite being an 'avid remoaner' (cheers for the label @Joey66, I use it with pride) I don't buy into the idea of just stopping Brexit and moving forward like nothing happened.
We have to leave, but the terms of which we leave need to be such that no real long-term economic damage is caused - because at the end of the day, it's people like us that'll bare the brunt of it.
It's not just the right, we the left are just as bad for it.
At the end of the day, the media are the best people for keeping people in check and asking questions that otherwise would be ignored. Accountability is everything.
My greatest concern going forward is how badly we're dealing with the negotiations. Despite being an 'avid remoaner' (cheers for the label @Joey66, I use it with pride) I don't buy into the idea of just stopping Brexit and moving forward like nothing happened.
We have to leave, but the terms of which we leave need to be such that no real long-term economic damage is caused - because at the end of the day, it's people like us that'll bare the brunt of it.
Thanks for the mention I have to remind you the people had to bear the brunt when we joined the then common market
Prices soured especially food and luxury goods!
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Luxury goods, probably a bit out of my reach - living in a council house in South Wales mate.
I think you got me wrong, to be fair.
To actually contribute something meaningful to the debate, the reason why wages have fallen/stagnated is because people believe that unions do nothing these days. Used to be that people would fight for their best interests, and force those at the top to invest and innovate to ensure a healthy profit in spite of rising wages and inflation - but that's not happening now. We're all focused on twiddling interest rates by point something of a percentage point.
Mental.
It was mental when early on when joining the French farmers burnt our lamb on their borders!
As for luxury good purchase tax before joining was 3-9 percent it went to a flat 10 percent so everyday diy items at 3 percent went to 10 percent -
Food all the cheap comingwealth food trebled in price and the we had wine and food mountains hedgerows being ripped out to get European money grants the farmers loved it - not now unless you are French!
So the common man did get clobbered!
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