Current Affairs EU In or Out

[ToffeeTim]

When I voted to leave it actually did want to leave the EU. Could the intellectually superior like Blair And Clegg please stop claiming I didn't have a clue what I was voting for when I voted leave. I knew exactly what I was voting for. Complete separation from the jurisdiction of unelected officials. The vanity mission for the metropolitan elite has failed and it's pathetic seeing attempts to derail the democratic will of the nation.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

When I voted to leave it actually did want to leave the EU. Could the intellectually superior like Blair And Clegg please stop claiming I didn't have a clue what I was voting for when I voted leave. I knew exactly what I was voting for. Complete separation from the jurisdiction of unelected officials. The vanity mission for the metropolitan elite has failed and it's pathetic seeing attempts to derail the democratic will of the nation.

I thought you knew what you were voting for, yet you don't seem to know the very basics of how the EU runs.

The legislative part of the EU, ie the equivalent of our parliament, is done by MEPs, who you have a vote to elect. The European Commission, ie the equivalent of our civil service, is there to implement what the parliament decide. Just as with our civil service, you don't get to vote on this, but Britain is represented by an individual chosen by the people we do elect.

 

[peteblue]

When I voted to leave it actually did want to leave the EU. Could the intellectually superior like Blair And Clegg please stop claiming I didn't have a clue what I was voting for when I voted leave. I knew exactly what I was voting for. Complete separation from the jurisdiction of unelected officials. The vanity mission for the metropolitan elite has failed and it's pathetic seeing attempts to derail the democratic will of the nation.

This is what they cannot accept. They have to believe that the 17,400,000 voters didn't know what they were voting for. They just cannot understand that they were wrong. Yet I would imagine that all 17,400,000 would still vote for Brexit and a few million more would do now that the financial armageddon was shown to be pure conjecture...........

 

[ToffeeTim]

I thought you knew what you were voting for, yet you don't seem to know the very basics of how the EU runs.

The legislative part of the EU, ie the equivalent of our parliament, is done by MEPs, who you have a vote to elect. The European Commission, ie the equivalent of our civil service, is there to implement what the parliament decide. Just as with our civil service, you don't get to vote on this, but Britain is represented by an individual chosen by the people we do elect.

Unelected judges impose decisions on us from strasbourg. If you want to deny that then fine but suggesting they don't is fantasy.

Comparing them with our civil service? Juncker is completely unelected. Name me a comparable person in the UK? I bet you can't....

 

[peteblue]

I thought you knew what you were voting for, yet you don't seem to know the very basics of how the EU runs.

The legislative part of the EU, ie the equivalent of our parliament, is done by MEPs, who you have a vote to elect. The European Commission, ie the equivalent of our civil service, is there to implement what the parliament decide. Just as with our civil service, you don't get to vote on this, but Britain is represented by an individual chosen by the people we do elect.

Bruce, we get to vote in a minority of MEP's, we don't get to vote in any of the 'Presidents' as they are chosen by Merkel behind closed doors. We have almost no voice in the EU, it is a stitch up, if you don't understand this then you will never understand why we voted leave........

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Unelected judges impose decisions on us from strasbourg. If you want to deny that then fine but suggesting they don't is fantasy.

Comparing them with our civil service? Juncker is completely unelected. Name me a comparable person in the UK? I bet you can't....

We don't get to elect judges in this country either, and Juncker is directly comparable to John Manzioni, the current chief executive of the civil service. Did you vote for him? Did you vote for Simon Stevens, the CEO of NHS England?

I will say again, the European Commission don't decide on anything. They don't act unilaterally. They implement what the European parliament decide, and the parliament is made up of elected MEPs.

The structure is exactly the same as the structure we have in Britain, so hopefully given your distaste for it you'll be petitioning for change here too?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce, we get to vote in a minority of MEP's, we don't get to vote in any of the 'Presidents' as they are chosen by Merkel behind closed doors. We have almost no voice in the EU, it is a stitch up, if you don't understand this then you will never understand why we voted leave........

Good grief Pete, if this is informed, I'd hate to see uninformed. There are three presidents in the EU. The European Commission we've already spoken about and is equivalent to John Manzioni, the CEO of the civil service.

Tusk is president of the European Council, which is effectively the chair person for the heads of state of each member nation. It's essentially a spokesperson for the heads of government.

Last, but not least, you have the 'president' of the European Parliament, which is equivalent to John Bercow.

 

[peteblue]

Good grief Pete, if this is informed, I'd hate to see uninformed. There are three presidents in the EU. The European Commission we've already spoken about and is equivalent to John Manzioni, the CEO of the civil service.

Tusk is president of the European Council, which is effectively the chair person for the heads of state of each member nation. It's essentially a spokesperson for the heads of government.

Last, but not least, you have the 'president' of the European Parliament, which is equivalent to John Bercow.

So of these 'Presidents' how many were proposed by the UK. Juncker was bitterly opposed by the U.K. and our concerns were just ignored and overridden, Tusk was bitterly opposed by his own country and they were overridden. Tajani was appointed by a stitch up in the EU Parliament. The whole thing is rotten.....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So of these 'Presidents' how many were proposed by the UK. Juncker was bitterly opposed by the U.K. and our concerns were just ignored and overridden, Tusk was bitterly opposed by his own country and they were overridden. Tajani was appointed by a stitch up in the EU Parliament. The whole thing is rotten.....

That may be so, but once again, this is absolutely no different to how politics here is done. Do you complain to your local MP if cabinet appointments aren't to your liking? Do you think it massively undemocratic if the government goes against the wishes of your local MP? Indeed, by your logic, some 16 million people would regard Brexit as a huge stitch up because it wasn't to their liking.

 

[Seanjd]

The public were very much instrumental in a

That may be so, but once again, this is absolutely no different to how politics here is done. Do you complain to your local MP if cabinet appointments aren't to your liking? Do you think it massively undemocratic if the government goes against the wishes of your local MP? Indeed, by your logic, some 16 million people would regard Brexit as a huge stitch up because it wasn't to their liking.

It's becoming apparent on here that Blair's opinion that lots of people didn't know what they were voting for is correct.

'What, president doesn't mean overarching dictator??'

 

[peteblue]

That may be so, but once again, this is absolutely no different to how politics here is done. Do you complain to your local MP if cabinet appointments aren't to your liking? Do you think it massively undemocratic if the government goes against the wishes of your local MP? Indeed, by your logic, some 16 million people would regard Brexit as a huge stitch up because it wasn't to their liking.

The difference is that we, us, the people of the UK can change our government via the ballot box and we have a chance to do so at the end of each parliament. We have no control over the government of the EU and no matter what concerns we have, they are ignored......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The difference is that we, us, the people of the UK can change our government via the ballot box and we have a chance to do so at the end of each parliament. We have no control over the government of the EU and no matter what concerns we have, they are ignored......

I'm not sure I buy that though Pete. There are typically 30 odd million people voting in each general election. Your odds of making a difference with your vote are worse than of you winning the lottery. As individuals, we have bugger all power in our democracy.

As for the EU, we can vote for MEPs, and we can vote for elected officials to represent us in Europe. So no, we don't have control over government, but then even if we make the naive assumption that a vote gives us some control over parliament here, the majority of voters put their cross in the box of someone other than the elected government, so we have no control here either.

That's politics isn't it?

As for being ignored, yourself and others have been saying repeatedly in the last few months that our crack negotiators are going to sock it to the EU during the Brexit process, so it's a little hard to see if we're so persuasive as we're walking out the door, we'd be utterly unpersuasive when we had a seat at the table. We can't have it both ways, can we?

 

[Seanjd]

The difference is that we, us, the people of the UK can change our government via the ballot box and we have a chance to do so at the end of each parliament. We have no control over the government of the EU and no matter what concerns we have, they are ignored......

That's because the EU isn't a government, it is a representational democracy. You can only change the way it is ran by changing your MEP's. The EU is made up of different ideologies, so can't be compared to a government. At the moment, it has more centre-right representation than anything else because of who we have voted for. We have also allowed far-right representation by voting for Farage and his cronies, so 'us, the people' can and have changed how it is ran.

Junker doesn't make the decisions, the MEP's do.

 

[peteblue]

That's because the EU isn't a government, it is a representational democracy. You can only change the way it is ran by changing your MEP's. The EU is made up of different ideologies, so can't be compared to a government. At the moment, it has more centre-right representation than anything else because of who we have voted for. We have also allowed far-right representation by voting for Farage and his cronies, so 'us, the people' can and have changed how it is ran.

Junker doesn't make the decisions, the MEP's do.

The MEP's get to vote on whatever the commission puts before them. As President, Juncker gets to pick and chose people into roles and which direction the commission moves. Just look at the 5 options he has recently put up, one of which he immediately rubbished and two others are 'more europe'......

 

[peteblue]

I'm not sure I buy that though Pete. There are typically 30 odd million people voting in each general election. Your odds of making a difference with your vote are worse than of you winning the lottery. As individuals, we have bugger all power in our democracy.

As for the EU, we can vote for MEPs, and we can vote for elected officials to represent us in Europe. So no, we don't have control over government, but then even if we make the naive assumption that a vote gives us some control over parliament here, the majority of voters put their cross in the box of someone other than the elected government, so we have no control here either.

That's politics isn't it?

As for being ignored, yourself and others have been saying repeatedly in the last few months that our crack negotiators are going to sock it to the EU during the Brexit process, so it's a little hard to see if we're so persuasive as we're walking out the door, we'd be utterly unpersuasive when we had a seat at the table. We can't have it both ways, can we?

My votes have counted at every election and every referendum. This is not naive. Its not about one single vote making the difference but the single vote of many like minded people....

We have been ignored and the way they treated David Cameron was a disgrace. Well they are not ignoring us now....