Current Affairs EU In or Out

[1966efc]

I don't doubt that, but it is the way things are going. More and more, urban areas are the engines of economies around the world. Cities are increasingly therefore where the work is. It can't be mistaken the significant urban/rural divide that was present in both Brexit and Trump, and that's arguably a more relevant marker at the moment than left/right.

Yes, absolutely.

Now I don't think the kind of technological changes we're seeing can, or should, be stopped, but neither Brexit or Trump have proposed any ways to help people adapt to change. They haven't made it any easier for people to move inside a country (by giving LEAs more flexible funding or relaxing property regulations). They haven't done anything about helping adult education provision so that people have the skills for a changing world. Nothing at all. We're worshiping false idols.

Mmm. For me, huge issues raised & I need to get to Waitrose.

 

[The Esk]

There are no other organisations on Earth similar to the EU. With the exception of the odd reciprocal agreement here and there (Aus/NZ, for example), every country outside of the EU matches the description you give above. Yet I haven't heard any whinging about how Canada run their country, for example.

If you're good enough, you can work anywhere. All the EU does is allow those who are good enough and those who are not good enough to work on another EU country. Whoopee.

With respect I think you are missing the point - it's not about their ability to work anywhere, it's about the values of the nation, their nation.

They don't recognise the country we are becoming, nor increasingly do they see a viable method of changing the direction the country is moving in. Therefore they feel compelled to look elsewhere.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

With respect I think you are missing the point - it's not about their ability to work anywhere, it's about the values of the nation, their nation.

They don't recognise the country we are becoming, nor increasingly do they see a viable method of changing the direction the country is moving in. Therefore they feel compelled to look elsewhere.

"Citizens of the world are citizens of nowhere." Not hard to see why they don't really feel like Britain is the place for them. What's more, I suspect the true sense of things is shielded by a huge extent because they live in London, which is quite probably the most international city in the world. As I posted earlier, it's stark the urban/rural divide in the vote, with the rural seeming to win out overall. That should surely concern anyone as those cities are the engines of our nation, whether economically, scientifically, intellectually.

That's not to say city dwellers are 'better' or anything of that nature, but if the country is to thrive we need the cities on board, and I think with the exception of Birmingham, every other major city in the UK voted 'remain'.

 

[The Cowboy]

With respect I think you are missing the point - it's not about their ability to work anywhere, it's about the values of the nation, their nation.

They don't recognise the country we are becoming, nor increasingly do they see a viable method of changing the direction the country is moving in. Therefore they feel compelled to look elsewhere.

Then they've been brainwashed (by the Remain campaign) into believing the Leave vote means we're heading towards some sort of 1930s Nazi Germany.

I have been getting up, coming to work and living my life every day since the ref in summer, and NOTHING had changed. Everything is just carrying on as it was. This idea that we're fundamentally changing as a nation is complete bunkum.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Then they've been brainwashed (by the Remain campaign) into believing the Leave vote means we're heading towards some sort of 1930s Nazi Germany.

I have been getting up, coming to work and living my life every day since the ref in summer, and NOTHING had changed. Everything is just carrying on as it was. This idea that we're fundamentally changing as a nation is complete bunkum.

Couple of things though. Firstly, nothing has changed yet (in distinct terms anyway) as we haven't left. The mood may have changed, but that leads me onto the 2nd point, which is you work in London, which is not only incredibly cosmopolitan, but also ~70% remain, so you're probably not subjected to any changes in mood that are present in other parts of the land (and as a Brit you're quite probably not subjected to it anyway)

 

[The Cowboy]

Couple of things though. Firstly, nothing has changed yet (in distinct terms anyway) as we haven't left. The mood may have changed, but that leads me onto the 2nd point, which is you work in London, which is not only incredibly cosmopolitan, but also ~70% remain, so you're probably not subjected to any changes in mood that are present in other parts of the land (and as a Brit you're quite probably not subjected to it anyway)

I live in Castle Point. 2nd strongest Leave vote constituency. Nothing has changed.

 

[edge]

Couple of things though. Firstly, nothing has changed yet (in distinct terms anyway) as we haven't left. The mood may have changed, but that leads me onto the 2nd point, which is you work in London, which is not only incredibly cosmopolitan, but also ~70% remain, so you're probably not subjected to any changes in mood that are present in other parts of the land (and as a Brit you're quite probably not subjected to it anyway)

You could easily make the same claims about you Bruce, as you live in London and nearly every post shows a very London centric view point on the world that you just don't understand the rest of the country or its people's concerns,or mood
Cheap shot at the cowboy totally uncalled for

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I live in Castle Point. 2nd strongest Leave vote constituency. Nothing has changed.

With respect though, you said you come into work (in London) and nothing has changed. Even in Castle Point, according to the last census, 95% of the population were English (97% British), with hardly any Europeans living there. Were you expecting pitchforks to be released on people that don't exist in your town?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You could easily make the same claims about you Bruce, as you live in London and nearly every post shows a very London centric view point on the world that you just don't understand the rest of the country or its people's concerns,or mood
Cheap shot at the cowboy totally uncalled for

That's fair, but I do try and counter that by reading as widely as possible from people who have studied the various topics wrapped up in this issue through a wider lens than my personal experience affords me. You know, the kind of stuff that gets disparaged as 'Googling'.

 

[The Cowboy]

With respect though, you said you come into work (in London) and nothing has changed. Even in Castle Point, according to the last census, 95% of the population were English (97% British), with hardly any Europeans living there. Were you expecting pitchforks to be released on people that don't exist in your town?

Ok, so in a heavily Remain area, nothing has changed. In a heavily Leave area, nothing has changed. Where am I supposed to look for this supposed seething mob of negativity?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Ok, so in a heavily Remain area, nothing has changed. In a heavily Leave area, nothing has changed. Where am I supposed to look for this supposed seething mob of negativity?

Maybe ask some European people?

 

[The Cowboy]

Maybe ask some European people?

That's not the point though. There's apparently a seething resentment on the streets, a baying mob of little Englanders marking 'EU go home' on immigrants doors. I'm yet to see evidence of this anywhere.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That's not the point though. There's apparently a seething resentment on the streets, a baying mob of little Englanders marking 'EU go home' on immigrants doors. I'm yet to see evidence of this anywhere.

It's hardly like there will be burning crosses in the street. I mean you commented a while back about Lithuanians having nothing in common with Britons. I had the pleasure of working with a Lithuanian lady earlier this year and she was perfectly charming and very smart, with no problems whatsoever integrating. But you wouldn't know that if you hadn't spoken to them and found out because she doesn't look any different to British women.

Is it really a coincidence that most of the places that voted strongly to leave are those with very few migrants living there? I've said numerous times in this thread about the various studies looking at culture across the world, and broadly speaking the people that choose to live and work here, choose to do so because they like Britain and like its culture. In other words, they aren't really any different to you or I. But you don't know that unless you actually engage with them.

 

[JonS]

I don't doubt that, but it is the way things are going. More and more, urban areas are the engines of economies around the world. Cities are increasingly therefore where the work is. It can't be mistaken the significant urban/rural divide that was present in both Brexit and Trump, and that's arguably a more relevant marker at the moment than left/right.

Now I don't think the kind of technological changes we're seeing can, or should, be stopped, but neither Brexit or Trump have proposed any ways to help people adapt to change. They haven't made it any easier for people to move inside a country (by giving LAs more flexible funding or relaxing property regulations). They haven't done anything about helping adult education provision so that people have the skills for a changing world. Nothing at all. We're worshiping false idols.

Give them a chance! Brexit hasn't yet started and Trump is not yet president.

In any case Brexit is a constitutional change to leave the EU. It is up to our governments elected in our general elections to do the rest and carry out any political or policy changes.

I also don't think more people moving to cities is the answer. London is already overcrowded and overheated economically compared with the rest of the UK.

Trump, for all his unpleasant personality sounds like he might actually do something to address the situation in the rural areas you mention.

 

[bflefc]

With respect I think you are missing the point - it's not about their ability to work anywhere, it's about the values of the nation, their nation.

They don't recognise the country we are becoming, nor increasingly do they see a viable method of changing the direction the country is moving in. Therefore they feel compelled to look elsewhere.

Is that how they perceive Norway, and Norwegians? (avoiding the usual Kopite criticisms, of course!)