Ellis Simms

[BernieH]

The whole city "called" Rooney at 11 mate, he was all over the press form a very young age.

Walter Smith anted him in the first team at 15!!!

I know, I was just making a point about how difficult it is to judge unless they are actual stand outs, phenoms if you will but yeah I remember Rooney breaking scoring records all over the show, it just happened he was 14 when I told a non Evertonian about him(a Man Utd fan of all people, he remembered his name alright )

 

[Barnfred 55]

I agree.

I think people have a point when they say we overhype youngsters because we definitely have in the past, like saying Barkley was going to be as good as Gerrard and Lampard. But people have gone too far the other way and it just seems like they want to be the first to write players off as early into their career as possible so they can look clever. “See him there, I knew he was sh** all along, I spotted it”. No one’s arsed lad.

Ross Barkley is by far the best we've had through the academy since Rooney, whilst himself being nowhere in the same class as Rooney at that age. Rooney IMO actually peaked at 18/19, and in a similar way Barkley didn't improve after he was 21. In fact he went backwards. When he was younger I hoped that he could turn out to be spoken of in the same vein as Lampard and Gerrard, both of who carried on developing well until their mid twenties and then maintained it into their 30s. Sadly Barkley hasn't done that. I did see signs of the old Barkley for England this last week in the way he was picking up and running past players. He's still only 25.

None of our current crop, whilst still being good prospects, are in the same league as Barkley at the same age.

 

[MikeH72]

Ross Barkley is by far the best we've had through the academy since Rooney, whilst himself being nowhere in the same class as Rooney at that age. Rooney IMO actually peaked at 18/19, and in a similar way Barkley didn't improve after he was 21. In fact he went backwards. When he was younger I hoped that he could turn out to be spoken of in the same vein as Lampard and Gerrard, both of who carried on developing well until their mid twenties and then maintained it into their 30s. Sadly Barkley hasn't done that. I did see signs of the old Barkley for England this last week in the way he was picking up and running past players. He's still only 25.

None of our current crop, whilst still being good prospects, are in the same league as Barkley at the same age.

My point was, even the most talented of the crop of youngsters Barkley, was held up to be something he wasn’t by our fans. Rather than just accept him for what he was as a good Premier League player with potential to be very good, we went overboard. We’re so desperate to have “our own Gerrard”, it really doesn’t help the player.

 

[Barnfred 55]

My point was, even the most talented of the crop of youngsters Barkley, was held up to be something he wasn’t by our fans. Rather than just accept him for what he was as a good Premier League player with potential to be very good, we went overboard. We’re so desperate to have “our own Gerrard”, it really doesn’t help the player.

I know mate. And I'm saying I was one of those fans who hope he would turn out as good as Lampard and Gerrard. But he turned into one of those players who peaks early in their career, like Rooney. I just took an awful lot of words to say that.

 

[blueblue]

Both Barkley and Rooney were physically very strong at a young age.
Lots of young players can be very talented but not ready for the physicality of the Premiership.

 

[MikeH72]

I know mate. And I'm saying I was one of those fans who hope he would turn out as good as Lampard and Gerrard. But he turned into one of those players who peaks early in their career, like Rooney. I just took an awful lot of words to say that.

Hoping our youth players turn out that good is something we all should do! But we had people honestly posting stats from when those players were that age in comparison to Barkley like it meant he was equal to them. It’s not fair on the player to put expectations that high on them, likewise it’s not fair to write them off and consign them to the scrap heap at the age of 19.

 

[davids]

Both Barkley and Rooney were physically very strong at a young age.
Lots of young players can be very talented but not ready for the physicality of the Premiership.

Don't tell Bernard.

 

[catcherintherye]

Ross Barkley is by far the best we've had through the academy since Rooney, whilst himself being nowhere in the same class as Rooney at that age. Rooney IMO actually peaked at 18/19, and in a similar way Barkley didn't improve after he was 21. In fact he went backwards. When he was younger I hoped that he could turn out to be spoken of in the same vein as Lampard and Gerrard, both of who carried on developing well until their mid twenties and then maintained it into their 30s. Sadly Barkley hasn't done that. I did see signs of the old Barkley for England this last week in the way he was picking up and running past players. He's still only 25.

None of our current crop, whilst still being good prospects, are in the same league as Barkley at the same age.

I remember (former academy director) Ray Hall saying we had to lower our expectation of what constitutes making it. As far as he was concerned if they played for Everton they had made it.

Ross Barkley has 27 games for England and he's just approaching his peak years. If the penny drops for him he will be comfortably double that. He will win loads of different medals. Even though he did us wrong, the fee we received for him will pay for the academy for at least a season, if not several. He plays for one of the best teams in Europe. It's an odd world that people view him as a failure.

The 18 months he missed with a double leg break affected him too. He was ready to break through as he did at 18 at 16. He missed a lot of development there. For me he was head and shoulders above Lampard and Gerrard at 16. He was better at 16 than both of those were at 18. However he didn't kick on as much as he should (barring Martinez's first season where he improved significantly). There's a common theme in there with our youth players.

That being said, it's an odd view of a failure. He already has more England caps than Harvey, Kendall, Reid & Bracewell combined.

 

[Baines' left foot]

Just get him on the pitch Silva you utter joke!!!!

 

[Tigger]

Rooney mk2, he is our saviour

 

[Barnfred 55]

Hoping our youth players turn out that good is something we all should do! But we had people honestly posting stats from when those players were that age in comparison to Barkley like it meant he was equal to them. It’s not fair on the player to put expectations that high on them, likewise it’s not fair to write them off and consign them to the scrap heap at the age of 19.

Agreed

 

[MikeH72]

I remember (former academy director) Ray Hall saying we had to lower our expectation of what constitutes making it. As far as he was concerned if they played for Everton they had made it.

Ross Barkley has 27 games for England and he's just approaching his peak years. If the penny drops for him he will be comfortably double that. He will win loads of different medals. Even though he did us wrong, the fee we received for him will pay for the academy for at least a season, if not several. He plays for one of the best teams in Europe. It's an odd world that people view him as a failure.

The 18 months he missed with a double leg break affected him too. He was ready to break through as he did at 18 at 16. He missed a lot of development there. For me he was head and shoulders above Lampard and Gerrard at 16. He was better at 16 than both of those were at 18. However he didn't kick on as much as he should (barring Martinez's first season where he improved significantly). There's a common theme in there with our youth players.

That being said, it's an odd view of a failure. He already has more England caps than Harvey, Kendall, Reid & Bracewell combined.

what, how do you know how good Lampard and Gerrard were at 16?

Who’s saying he’s a failure? Is he a failure because he’s not turned out as good as Lampard and Gerrard?

 

[blueblue]

Don't tell Bernard.

Don't confuse small with weak.

 

[catcherintherye]

what, how do you know how good Lampard and Gerrard were at 16?

Who’s saying he’s a failure? Is he a failure because he’s not turned out as good as Lampard and Gerrard?

I don't, but I know Lampard wasn't massively fancied at around 17/18 by lots of coaches at West Ham and Gerrard looked massively out of place when he first started at 18 (Ginola in particular made a mockery of him one game).

I don't think Barkley is a failure, but some talk of him as if he is. I don't think he's a failure at all, which was my point probably not very well put across!

 

[Leeboy1974]

Get him in the squad for the rest of the season