ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[toffee-L]

I see the new tactic of the British media is to use a tiny number of anecdotal tidbits of problems that Madrid fans experienced getting in to the ground as proof that Liverpool fans did nothing wrong - placing the blame entirely on the organisers. A new argument easily rubbished by the fact that the nearly every Madrid fan was present and seated at least half and hour before the original kick off time, and the Liverpool end was less than 20% full by this point.

There is something quite sinister going on in the reporting of this, and it remains to be seen whether the upward pressure created by the RS media will be enough to buckle the French and UEFA into accepting their version events.

If I was UEFA, and had witnessed decades of Liverpool fans causing murder (sometimes literally) all over Europe, I'd be doing everything in my power to use this investigation as a way of seriously clamping down on that club and making them fully aware that until their fans learn how to behave themselves they'll be playing behind closed doors indefinitely.

 

[PhilM]

this would make for an explosive Ale House thread:

Do scousers deserve their shady rep?

with public poll lol

one for @chicoazul

Sadly, yes. There's lots of great elements to this city, including the people, but I do believe that to some extent the elements of the reputation are true.

Look at the open stealing on the way to big games at service stations, admittedly from both sets of fans. Look at the cultural norms of how people react.

Look at how prominent the city is as a base of major criminality. Read the, 'Scouse not English' shouts and how the city often pleads pity and whatnot.

I'm a proud born-and-bred native of this city, but let's not pretend that we as a city are perfect; let's not pretend that the reputation isn't without some warrants.

That's not to say it's completely justified or there weren't justifiable reasons for how the city has reacted in the past, yet the city's reputation isn't overly unfair.

I've travelled all over the world and it's not unusual to hear the response of, 'Wow, scousers are great' versus example of 'Scousers did this...and that..."`

Do the LFC fans deserve their reputation? Yes. Is it unfair on the vast majority who do not portray those traits? Of course, but that's life.

It's no different to me being upset with those in our own fan base who lobbed a bottle at Digne, dislike certain players because of unconscious racism et al.

We all get tarred by the same brush, so ultimately it's our responsibility to call them out. This city and its people are in the mainstay great, yet there's dross too.

 

[WilliamPerry]

Oh come fella don’t do the right wings bidding for them

Naples is great btw too

I’m not right and I’m certainly not far left so I couldn’t care less about doing anyones bidding .Naples is a fantastic city and I watch to go to watch Napoli badly . But both city’s are overrun by people who live for making money by any means possible. Both city’s have a msssive say in the global drug trade . both city’s are disliked in there respecting countries . We are very similar

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I went to a Hannover 98 once to watch them play Werder Bremen. This was described to me as relatively competitive fixture as part of the west German rivalries.

Before the game, both sets of fans freely mingled outside their stadium even with the rivalry. I asked my friend, a German citizen, why it was so calm.

He pointed to the towering grocks that make up the BePos (Federal/State riot cops) and respectfully quipped, "We'll lose if we fight." Simple as that.

Meanwhile, in England

 

[spectateur]

Totally agree. Brit’s walking round like they own the place , will never go down well

But they do don't they.
Not just football fans but many holidaymakers.
In my part of France the British on holiday have a reputation for drinking too much and complaining if things are not quite the same as in good old blighty

 

[PhilM]

But they do don't they.
Not just football fans but many holidaymakers.
In my part of France the British on holiday have a reputation for drinking too much and complaining if things are not quite the same as in good old blighty

I was in Turkey and a woman complained at a buffet there wasn't bacon. She was irate and causing a real commotion. "You're in a Muslim country you daft b..."

If we repsected cultures as much as some here demand others respect ours, the world and their lives would be a much happier place.

 

[BlueToff]

Other factors of this shambles need to be addressed in any formal top level probe namely the forged tickets and Klopp's misguided enthusiasm for people to go to Paris even without tickets. Given that they've only been given scant consideration here and sidelined by the Paris Police violence, its wrong that none of the media interviews ever refer to these aspects.

A common denominator could be that people of influence interviewed such as the MP Byrne - a good, decent fella by all accounts - and Metro Mayor Rotherham are both fanatical LFC supporters. I understand their loyalty and first hand experience of what went on, but it would be refreshing if someone of note but detached from LFC could refer to other precipitating factors too if any formal Inquiry is to have any depth and clarity.

How about all the high-profile journalists, British and from other countries, who were there and have said the same thing too?

 

[dholliday]

.

Sadly, yes. There's lots of great elements to this city, including the people, but I do believe that to some extent the elements of the reputation are true.

Look at the open stealing on the way to big games at service stations, admittedly from both sets of fans. Look at the cultural norms of how people react.

Look at how prominent the city is as a base of major criminality. Read the, 'Scouse not English' shouts and how the city often pleads pity and whatnot.

I'm a proud born-and-bred native of this city, but let's not pretend that we as a city are perfect; let's not pretend that the reputation isn't without some warrants.

That's not to say it's completely justified or there weren't justifiable reasons for how the city has reacted in the past, yet the city's reputation isn't overly unfair.

I've travelled all over the world and it's not unusual to hear the response of, 'Wow, scousers are great' versus example of 'Scousers did this...and that..."`

Do the LFC fans deserve their reputation? Yes. Is it unfair on the vast majority who do not portray those traits? Of course, but that's life.

It's no different to me being upset with those in our own fan base who lobbed a bottle at Digne, dislike certain players because of unconscious racism et al.

We all get tarred by the same brush, so ultimately it's our responsibility to call them out. This city and its people are in the mainstay great, yet there's dross too.

good post, you touch upon the collective responsibility of identity...this is a concept famously frowned upon when suggested of other groups of folk who may have an overly-represented trouble-making percentage (on tip-toes here!).

We Germans battled with same for decades post-nazism. Still battling it now: do we engage and thus accept the collective responsibility of identity or do we ignore and say nowt to do with me?

No easy answers.

Someone should make that thread if they're feeling brave



ps - also curious about why you always format your posts the way you do...superstition?

 

[WilliamPerry]

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the stick that @BlueToff is getting. He's a good blue although I do respectfully disagree with some of the stuff he's saying here.

Insinuating he's a RS or biased towards them is however, in my own humble opinion, unfair.

My apologies @BlueToff

 

[dholliday]

How about all the high-profile journalists, British and from other countries, who were there and have said the same thing too?

if the current events of the last few years has taught us anything, it's not to trust the media or its hacks.

 

[mccole]

I can't wait for the independent inquiry when they count all the Kopites questionnaire and the count is 50,000 all with tickets hahaha

 

[WilliamPerry]

My apologies @BlueToff

I take this back , he’s still being a beaut

 

[abcdef]

The French aren't backing down.

 

[JAYMULL]

Of course, but telling someone who wants to sneak into a stadium not to do it, won't make much difference.

The people I have a lot of sympathy for are those with genuine tickets who didn't get in because of a lack of organisation and the selfish behaviour of others.

exactly the point my friend.

 

[daza_1973]

The French aren't backing down.

Viva La France