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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

BlueToff said:
20,000 people down one road, cut in half by police vans, under a flyover, in a notoriously rough area of a sprawling city, with 6-8 stewards checking tickets before they got to the turnstiles, and no other checkpoints, with said stewards then leaving their post and letting everyone through to the turnstiles... This is on UEFA and the French.
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I have been to two rugby and two football matches at Stade de France. The police had exactly the same set up under that flyover. I thought it was ridiculous and dangerous. That said, there were no issues.

If they investigate properly, they need to accurately guage the numbers of fans in and around the stadium. It has a capacity and it appears to have been massively exceeded. Surely with all the cameras this is not too difficult.

Klopp telling ticket less fans to go was just crazy.

There was probably over 100,000 Liverpool fans in Paris (ground and fan park). Their official allocation was 19,000 (unacceptably low). Only takes 0.5% to cause complete carnage. There was also clearly local youths bunking in.

There is blame to go around and it is not to the vast majority of Liverpool fans. Whenever there's trouble it is never the majority of fans. When you see EDL type England fans throwing chairs abroad there's only ever a dozen or two. But there were fake tickets and fans bunking in.
 

Perfect storm really. 1000,s of rs buying fake tickets and to steal the seats off genuine fans resulting in chaos at the gates. Local thugs intent on either bunking in with them or robbing them blind. A heavy handed, inept police presence which caused more panic. All in all a recipe for disaster. The vast majority of the blame goes to the thoughtless rs fans with fake/no tickets.
 

toffee82 said:
I have been to two rugby and two football matches at Stade de France. The police had exactly the same set up under that flyover. I thought it was ridiculous and dangerous. That said, there were no issues.

If they investigate properly, they need to accurately guage the numbers of fans in and around the stadium. It has a capacity and it appears to have been massively exceeded. Surely with all the cameras this is not too difficult.

Klopp telling ticket less fans to go was just crazy.

There was probably over 100,000 Liverpool fans in Paris (ground and fan park). Their official allocation was 19,000 (unacceptably low). Only takes 0.5% to cause complete carnage. There was also clearly local youths bunking in.

There is blame to go around and it is not to the vast majority of Liverpool fans. Whenever there's trouble it is never the majority of fans. When you see EDL type England fans throwing chairs abroad there's only ever a dozen or two. But there were fake tickets and fans bunking in.
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100%

But UEFA should insist on a level of organisation. The French authorities are - let's be frank - useless. They are horrific under Macron. Any little bit of research tells you that. He had the whole police force scrapping with protestors every weekend until COVID came along. His government are as bad as ours when it comes to finding people to blame.

It's the Champions League final. They knew how many fans would come over. The one checkpoint thing is the main issue here. They could have had 2-3 checkpoints on the way to the ground, which would have helped weed out ticketless fans, local youths, direct any Madrid fans going the wrong way and vice versa. Instead they had one, with 6-8 stewards likely on minimum wage, who then left that position anyway (I'd imagine by direction).

It's also been documented by journalists who have no Liverpool connection that the riot police started gassing people indiscriminately once a gang of teens (who were not definitely Liverpool fans) started storming over the fences near the turnstitles.
 
anton66 said:
Perfect storm really. 1000,s of rs buying fake tickets and to steal the seats off genuine fans resulting in chaos at the gates. Local thugs intent on either bunking in with them or robbing them blind. A heavy handed, inept police presence which caused more panic. All in all a recipe for disaster. The vast majority of the blame goes to the thoughtless rs fans with fake/no tickets.
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Ultimately it doesn't, because there will always be idiots like that at big events.

It's on UEFA, the authorities and the police to have suitable measures in place to catch the vast majority of those poeple out.
 
gorgeousgeorgeEFC said:
There’s no evidence to support this claim. Also, how can a few hundred fake tickets cause people to be detained for up to four hours?
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Hundreds (if you believe them) didnt get in with genuine (if you believe them) tickets. and why didnt ';pcal youths' target the madrid end?
some wanky faced queef peddler from taw (the anfield wrap) has just been mouthing off on the national news about french police and uefa being liars.
maybe another european ban is what will make them get hold of the hooligans in their support.
 

BlueToff said:
Ultimately it doesn't, because there will always be idiots like that at big events.

It's on UEFA, the authorities and the police to have suitable measures in place to catch the vast majority of those poeple out.
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It was the amount of fakes though. Like I said they all thought they could steal their own fans seats. They couldn’t care less.
 
mmmmsnouts said:
Because a bunch of their scummy fans clogged up the turnstiles with fake tickets and brought the whole entry process to a screeching halt
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But there lovable scamps that will do anything to see their team.
I am not condoning tear gasing women and kids or the heavy handed tactics of the French police but these methods are based on what has gone on previously.
They have seen what went on at Wembley last year with England fans and previous jaunts in Europe with Liverpool fans.
You have a Liverpool manager openly telling fans to go to Paris without tickets,What does he thing will happen when they get there?
They are obviously going to use any method possible to get into the ground be it jumping fences or using fake tickets.
On this occasion there seems to be a huge amount of fake tickets.
Lessons to be learned:
Don't encourage people to go without tickets
Don't take young kids to European finals
Don't buy tickets from dubious sources and be surprised that they are fake.
Don't buy jarg tickets knowing they are fake.
Have some consideration for your fellow supporters.
Things that were acceptable in the 70s and 80s are not acceptable now buy your tickets from genuine sources if you don't you are not completely blameless when there are issues at the turnstiles.
 
PhilM said:
It's unlikely they'd be able to duplicate a ticket to the require quality where it fools the system; that's if the system is electronic as you'd expect.

Personally, I think it would be crass to ignore the errors by the French authorities that appear to have helped exacerbate the situation over in Paris.

I saw a video of a young, compliant fan trying to scan his ticket in and getting gassed. He continued to be complaint and showed no hostility.

So I think there's an element of truth in the overreaction and there'll be lots of fans who are justifiably angry at what occurred, and that's fair enough.

But equally, there's evidence out there that suggests that some (emphasis on some) of the issues may have arose because of issues in their own fan base.

There's potential evidence of fans selling and using fake tickets likewise with videos of fans bunking in. You need to look at the number of fans in the aisles.

Compare this with the Madrid end and you have to ask yourself, 'Why didn't all the local fans who chose to cause this not go in the Madrid end?'

This adds some weight to the French argument that people trying to use non-working tickets to some extent clogged up the turnstiles and slowed the system down.

If you're at the front with thousands behind you and your ticket doesn't work, what do they do? Let you in or are you expected to get out of the way?

Again, if there's issue with the ticketing system why did it not impact on the Madrid tickets to the same extent as the Liverpool fans who couldn't get in?

You'd be naive to suggest the police didn't help and there were local youths getting involved, but equally I'd say you're naive if they are the only cause of it.
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Unfortunately we'll never get the truth as both parties plead innocence.
 
JLW said:
That's what gets peoples backs up mate i haven't seen one red calling out a fellow red for bunking in or purchasing a blag ticket.

They are another disaster waiting to happen and will not take an ounce of responsibility for it.
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This is the problem now for me, the main factor on Saturday was the horrendous policing (which loads of us have experienced) I think there’s not too much doubt about that.

But in all these interviews with mp’s and timelines from journalists there’s a glaring omission, some liverpool fans did bunk in and there’s 1st hand evidence of it.

If they keep ignoring it it will keep happening.
 

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