ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[cronullasharks]

Yes they live in a really weird bubble where they just talk to each other and nobody else. Once their ideas hit the outside world, they look stupid. It's partly why just about every fanbase in the country think they are complete buffoons and can't stand them.

Can have a chat about footy with fans of any other club except that lot.

 

[Efcjake]

I remember you were confused at what wages to turnover was last month, some other poster had to explain what it was.

No club is £40-£50 behind Barcelona's wage bill in 2020 lol, their wages are insane and not a first place they want to be.

These are the Wages from the 19-20 season, we cannot use the 20-21 season as turnover results won't be released until the new year at the earliest, these results come from actual turnover results from that season and are as accurate as can be, also should note some massive underachievement from United and Barcelona, top 2 in wages and no trophies in 19-20 season, Chelsea never won anything either that season, but every other club in the list won a trophy.

• Barcelona – £438 million.
• Manchester United – £332 million.
• Manchester City – £315 million.
• Real Madrid – £312 million.
• Liverpool – £310 million.
• Bayern Munich – £292 million.
• Paris Saint-Germain – £290 million.
• Chelsea – £285 million.

The Top 10 Highest Wage Bills In World Football

List of the World’s top 10 highest wage bills in club football The top 10 highest wage bills in world football for 2020 has been revealed. The recent wage bills of the World’s club football elite has been revealed via Companies House. Liverpool saw a 17.5% increase in their wage bill from the...

www.sportingferret.com

Your figures don't match up with the official published accounts of all the clubs pal.

LFC 325 million



MCFC 351 million




MUFC 284 million



Throw in the fact that City just let Aguero go and Liverpool have a whack of contracts to extend for Mane, Salah and Henderson plus the new deals already signed for Allisson and Fabinho and it won't be long before their wage bill is the highest in the league.

But of course they still love to tell us they can't afford to compete with de oil klubs lad.

 

[Amokachi1995]

Your figures don't match up with the official published accounts of all the clubs pal.

LFC 325 million
View attachment 135192


MCFC 351 million

View attachment 135193


MUFC 284 million

View attachment 135194

Throw in the fact that City just let Aguero go and Liverpool have a whack of contracts to extend for Mane, Salah and Henderson plus the new deals already signed for Allisson and Fabinho and it won't be long before their wage bill is the highest in the league.

But of course they still love to tell us they can't afford to compete with de oil klubs lad.

No wonder they wanted to stick everyone on furlough.

 

[Alan0401]

Throw in the fact that City just let Aguero go and Liverpool have a whack of contracts to extend for Mane, Salah and Henderson plus the new deals already signed for Allisson and Fabinho and it won't be long before their wage bill is the highest in the league.

But of course they still love to tell us they can't afford to compete with de oil klubs lad.

They actually beat the oil clubs at being utter scum.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I have learnt lots on this forum, and elsewhere, as I'm sure most people have, but I can't say I recall being taught about turnover here a month ago. Can I ask when that was? Or is this in the same world that you state OGS is tactically inept and didn't finish above Klopp last season?

Again you don't really seem to have read, or comprehended anything else I've written. I haven't said wages to turnover isn't a worthwhile or useful measure (as it is) but just that it had no worth in the context of what we were discussing. This is about the 4th occasion now that you have just mansplained a fairly basic concept back which everyone already knows. The art of good conversation is not just rant and repeating your bit of knowledge, but listening to what's being said to you, and grasping the context of the discussion.

For about the 4th time, the discussion was about levels of wage spend and the correlation with performance. In that context, adding turnover doesn't add anything to that discussion. There are other discussions whereby it is an interesting is a little elementary point (it's fairly novice level of reading of financial statements but nevertheless it has some value).

The best indicator of where you will finish is the wages spent, not wages to turnover. In all honesty wages to turnover doesn't really give you much of an indication at all. It's a base level analysis for the efficiency and strategic decision making of an organisation. I don't think I'd know anyone who would use it in that context.

As for the question, I ignored it, because as with all of the above, it just doesn't have any relevance to the discussion. It's a bit of a crude question, as there are all sort of metrics that indicate financial strength, and I wouldn't really judge a business solely on 1 ratio, based on 2 numbers. However if you want to reduce it down to such a binary choice, the business with the lower wages to turnover is likely to be in a healthier financial position. I think everyone knows that, so it doesn't need answering. The real issue is, why would you want to input a completely irrelevant question to a discussion about wage spent versus performance.

I have seen the numbers you've given for wages, and it looks like they are out of date. I have given you the updated figures, hence why there is a difference. Liverpool are now 3/4th in the world on wage spend. If you're going to make statements about differences on wage spend (or other areas) it's probably best to use the most up to date information available as a general rule. It's also probably best to approach discussions from a standpoint of attempting to grasp what the discussion is about and contribute to it, rather than using it as platform to repetitively spout fairly elementary financial equations in order to try and show you understand wages to turnover. We have gathered that now. Your next challenge is to know when to use that bit of knowledge appropriately. Id also avoid the inaccurate assumption that just because somebody tactfully ignores irrelevant information they don't understand it. They just understand how and when to apply it.

I really think the use of the "mansplaining" term is an unnecessary and unhelpful addition to this argument.

 

[catcherintherye]

I really think the use of the "mansplaining" term is an unnecessary and unhelpful addition to this argument.

From a classic mansplainer, I'll have to disagree with you on that one!

 

[arch stanton]

Are they in a similar situation to us in that they can't really spend much atm?

they wont have much left after they have bought Mbappe and Messi (again)

 

[catcherintherye]

Your figures don't match up with the official published accounts of all the clubs pal.

LFC 325 million
View attachment 135192


MCFC 351 million

View attachment 135193


MUFC 284 million

View attachment 135194

Throw in the fact that City just let Aguero go and Liverpool have a whack of contracts to extend for Mane, Salah and Henderson plus the new deals already signed for Allisson and Fabinho and it won't be long before their wage bill is the highest in the league.

But of course they still love to tell us they can't afford to compete with de oil klubs lad.

I have tried to explain to @EverTheOptimist that the official accounts contradict what he is saying. I'm glad you've pointed it out in black and white for him. A useful learning exercise for him which I'm sure he will appreciate.

 

[Wat Tyler]

City getting JG and maybe HK, Chelsea getting Lukaku, not good signs for the Liv.

 

[Alan0401]

Probably on your 4th account and still can't help yourself with this ?

Just trying to get my head round this. Do Arsenal fans go on Spurs forums to argue why arsenal are great?

I just don't understand why someone would take their time to do that.

 

[Tommy F]

City getting JG and maybe HK, Chelsea getting Lukaku, not good signs for the Liv.

yes, but are they good signs for us?

 

[EverTheOptimist]

Interesting numbers from the spreadsheet, they show the full disclosure of playing and coaching staff of 207, and also staff of commercial and administrative which also totals 620 personnel.

Wow they have 129 people working in their commercial department alone, no wonder their turnover is growing exponentially every year.

On City's wage bill which i found they only report playing staff on their's, so it is true from the Der Spiegel leak that they did create another companies house for commercial and administrative personnel to keep the wage bill down from Uefa and PL auditors.

I wonder what City's wage bill would be including all playing, coaching (Etihad campus included) and commercial/administrative staff combined, i have to give credit to City, they are clever at skullduggery when it comes to accounting, they'll have some more diverting to do when Grealish and Kane are added to the wage bill with those crazy enormous wages.

I have tried to explain to @EverTheOptimist that the official accounts contradict what he is saying. I'm glad you've pointed it out in black and white for him. A useful learning exercise for him which I'm sure he will appreciate.

What learning exercise, Someone posted a source which you didn't or couldn't find and the figures are far away from what you said, you said 40-50 million behind Barcelona, i pointed out no club was no where near , that was my argument, i also said the petro dollar state owned annual perennial CL failures had the highest wages in England.

Well done @Efcjake, great bit of sourcing, we can all learn from you.

 

[Wat Tyler]

yes, but are they good signs for us?

I have us down as bottom half tbh

 

[cronullasharks]

Just trying to get my head round this. Do Arsenal fans go on Spurs forums to argue why arsenal are great?

I just don't understand why someone would take their time to do that.

Look at the current bore with his made up spreadsheets. Only them.

 

[catcherintherye]

Interesting numbers from the spreadsheet, they show the full disclosure of playing and coaching staff of 207, and also staff of commercial and administrative which also totals 620 personnel.

Wow they have 129 people working in their commercial department alone, no wonder their turnover is growing exponentially every year.

On City's wage bill which i found they only report playing staff on their's, so it is true from the Der Spiegel leak that they did create another companies house for commercial and administrative personnel to keep the wage bill down from Uefa and PL auditors.

I wonder what City's wage bill would be including all playing, coaching (Etihad campus included) and commercial/administrative staff combined, i have to give credit to City, they are clever at skullduggery when it comes to accounting, they'll have some more diverting to do when Grealish and Kane are added to the wage bill with those crazy enormous wages.

What learning exercise, Someone posted a source which you didn't or couldn't find and the figures are far away from what you said, you said 40-50 million behind Barcelona, i pointed out no club was no where near , that was my argument, i also said the petro dollar state owned annual perennial CL failures had the highest wages in England.

Well done @Efcjake, great bit of sourcing, we can all learn from you.

The guy who leaked the Der Spiegel interview (I believe) is actually in jail, convicted of fraud. Manchester City's accounts have been fully audited by accountancy professionals. I'll let people make up their own mind as to whether a licensed accountancy professional, or a convicted fraudster are a more trustworthy person to judge an organisations wage level.

The learning exercise you had, was that the figures you provided were out of date and inaccurate. @Efcjake took the time to substantiate the figures I had mentioned to you previously, but couldn't be bothered to look up. You had wanted the evidence why what I was saying was correct, and what you were saying unfortunately not accurate. In terms of a learning exercise, hopefully now you can see how to find the most up to date wage returns, where to source that information from and how to access that information.

I don't think anyone contradicted you that City had the highest wages (although you do seem to have casted doubt on the own figures you provided with some wild conspiracy theory originating from a fraudster) though strictly speaking you didn't say that. You listed what you thought each teams wages were, which was wrong/out of date. That was pointed out to you. You then bizarrely tried to cover this mistake by bringing in other irrelevant factors. Hopefully you can now see Liverpool have the 3/4th highest wage bill in world football, are well ahead of Manchester United (contrary to what you have said) and that the figures you have provided were wrong. If the outcome of this interaction is you can see how you made the mistakes you did, at least myself and Jake will have accomplished something.

As for Barcelona's wage bill, I'll direct you to this tweet


He puts the wage bill at £389m and with the relative strengthening of the pound to Euro you are looking at a differential of around 50m which is around the spot I estimated. Given they are having to severely cut their wage bill (a process that has began already with the reduction in Messi's salary) I would not be surprised if it came in lower than £300m. Some supposition on my part, which was made clear from the outset.