ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[Wayno]

These lot seem weirdly quiet this year,

As is well documented in here , I (my family) have several season tickets at Anfield that we flip to tourists for a profit on a game by game basis, the seats that I sell for the most (£250-£1000 depending on how they’re doing)

United
City
The run in

They’re barely budging this season, hardly any interest at all

Hopefully they sign Messi so I can can shift some final day tickets for £1k+

 

[catcherintherye]

Can you show us where it says that in their official accounts?

That would sound awfully like fraud, a very serious accusation.

Once again, here's what City's official financial report says. Nowhere near 620 people and as you can see the commerical and administration staff were included in the total 351 million figure.


View attachment 135309


Please show your sources pal

He doesnt have any sources. He will just keep making uninformed and libellous statements that he cant back up.

 

[canuckblue]

Just up on Sky.

Liverpool are adamant they want around £12.75m (€15m) to sell Xherdan Shaqiri this summer.

They have no shame at all!

No chance they'll sell short?

 

[Zatara]

Just Konate in so far then...

Plus a heap of contract extensions underway.

 

[random]

I'll let people make up their own mind as to whether a licensed accountancy professional, or a convicted fraudster are a more trustworthy person to judge an organisations wage level.

tbh that's a tough one to answer.....

 

[catcherintherye]

Just Konate in so far then...

Plus a heap of contract extensions underway.

They are clearly hedging on keeping the current squad together. Within the constraints they exist in (a v high cost base from wages and shareholders who can't/won't invest large sums of money to accumulate in the long run) it's probably quite a smart strategy.

They can't get into an arms race with Chelsea, City or even United. So far, partially because of Klopp and the combination of unique recruitment approach, they have bucked the trend a bit, though last season it seemed to fray a bit. The issue really becomes, eventually you get a mean regression, and the sides that spend more, and attract better players eventually start getting it right.

Last season nobody would have had them out of the top 2 and they came 3rd, but marginally ahead of 4/5th. That feels about their level this season now.

That's the issue with continuing on wage spending. You swap continuity at a certain level for potential upside. If/when Klopp goes you can see a bit of a crisis of this strategy, just as you can if Klopp has another wobbler like he had last season.

Being kind to Konate, he is a good squad option for them, who has the potential to be a 1st team starter. The problem for them is United have bought a CB who on day 1 who will be better than the player Konate could even potentially be. So it's hard to see certain teams not moving further away from them.

 

[Zatara]

They are clearly hedging on keeping the current squad together. Within the constraints they exist in (a v high cost base from wages and shareholders who can't/won't invest large sums of money to accumulate in the long run) it's probably quite a smart strategy.

They can't get into an arms race with Chelsea, City or even United. So far, partially because of Klopp and the combination of unique recruitment approach, they have bucked the trend a bit, though last season it seemed to fray a bit. The issue really becomes, eventually you get a mean regression, and the sides that spend more, and attract better players eventually start getting it right.

Last season nobody would have had them out of the top 2 and they came 3rd, but marginally ahead of 4/5th. That feels about their level this season now.

That's the issue with continuing on wage spending. You swap continuity at a certain level for potential upside. If/when Klopp goes you can see a bit of a crisis of this strategy, just as you can if Klopp has another wobbler like he had last season.

Being kind to Konate, he is a good squad option for them, who has the potential to be a 1st team starter. The problem for them is United have bought a CB who on day 1 who will be better than the player Konate could even potentially be. So it's hard to see certain teams not moving further away from them.

City, United and Chelsea look like being the top 3 this season.

Obviously its great for them that they finished in the top 4 last season. Though i wonder if they hadnt whether they would be handing out these extensions on increased wages?

With that in mind, i also wonder if they dont finish in the top 4 this season whether there could be somewhat of an implosion...

The wages are enormous and the overall team age is increasing while resale values would also generally be decreasing.

Alot will depend on their ability to have recharged and go at full pelt this season.

I dont think they can finish top 4.

 

[catcherintherye]

City, United and Chelsea look like being the top 3 this season.

Obviously its great for them that they finished in the top 4 last season. Though i wonder if they hadnt whether they would be handing out these extensions on increased wages?

With that in mind, i also wonder if they dont finish in the top 4 this season whether there could be somewhat of an implosion...

The wages are enormous and the overall team age is increasing while resale values would also generally be decreasing.

Alot will depend on their ability to have recharged and go at full pelt this season.

I dont think they can finish top 4.

As you know from your working experience, you will often get trigger events that will cause quite acute difficulties. Missing out on top 4 was going to be one of them. Next season it won't be as acute for them if they miss out (working to the premise all revenues streams return to standard, which of course they may not) but it would still be a trigger point. I'm not sure a business in the sector of football can run to a wage bill of £325/330 (and in all likelihood far greater once they extensions are done) and not have CL every season.

That is not just CL wages, that is the sorts of wages only teams owned by extremely generous shareholders can underwrite (indeed it is even well beyond PSG and Chelsea levels). Barcelona, another club not owned by such a shareholder (and far far bigger than Liverpool will ever be) are seemingly bankrupt from some reports, from having a wage bill that currently sits at 390m. That is with CL guaranteed every year as well. I don't think missing out is an option for them.

The problem is, they play in England. Manchester United are just commercially a far bigger draw than them and have piles of cash. Then City/Chelsea have shareholders who are willing and able to invest more than them. While they finished 2 points ahead of Chelsea last season, that was only because Chelsea prioritised the CL win. Chelsea and United overtook them last season on the field.

They seem quite stable to finish in the top 4, but they are paying more capital at ever depreciating returns as their players now get older. Once players get over about 28 they start to decline in performance. That's an awful lot of their squad now. Why is Mane, aged 29 going to kick back into form, with a season having the AFCON in the middle of it? Etc etc. It's funny, as an aside Marx talks a bit about this in relation to machinery costs in Kapital, that business plough ever more money into machines, but the output depreciates over time. It's a bit of a structural trap.

A lot of them seemed to think that CL qualification was going to herald some massive expansion in sales. It wasn't. CL qualification just keeps the plates spinning. The wage bill means there is no money to spend. When the horrors of last years accounts filter through, this austerity for them will likely continue for some time. I mean you can believe me, or you can believe the idiots who support them who told you they were definitely signing Mbappe in 2018, 2019 & 2020 and are apparently going to sign Messi this summer. I honestly wish it was a trading market, as I would just take the other side every time and would be a very wealthy man now. That would be my financial advice too, find what they say, and just take the opposite side and see how you're overwhelmingly correct.

 

[Zatara]

As you know from your working experience, you will often get trigger events that will cause quite acute difficulties. Missing out on top 4 was going to be one of them. Next season it won't be as acute for them if they miss out (working to the premise all revenues streams return to standard, which of course they may not) but it would still be a trigger point. I'm not sure a business in the sector of football can run to a wage bill of £325/330 (and in all likelihood far greater once they extensions are done) and not have CL every season.

That is not just CL wages, that is the sorts of wages only teams owned by extremely generous shareholders can underwrite (indeed it is even well beyond PSG and Chelsea levels). Barcelona, another club not owned by such a shareholder (and far far bigger than Liverpool will ever be) are seemingly bankrupt from some reports, from having a wage bill that currently sits at 390m. That is with CL guaranteed every year as well. I don't think missing out is an option for them.

The problem is, they play in England. Manchester United are just commercially a far bigger draw than them and have piles of cash. Then City/Chelsea have shareholders who are willing and able to invest more than them. While they finished 2 points ahead of Chelsea last season, that was only because Chelsea prioritised the CL win. Chelsea and United overtook them last season on the field.

They seem quite stable to finish in the top 4, but they are paying more capital at ever depreciating returns as their players now get older. Once players get over about 28 they start to decline in performance. That's an awful lot of their squad now. Why is Mane, aged 29 going to kick back into form, with a season having the AFCON in the middle of it? Etc etc. It's funny, as an aside Marx talks a bit about this in relation to machinery costs in Kapital, that business plough ever more money into machines, but the output depreciates over time. It's a bit of a structural trap.

A lot of them seemed to think that CL qualification was going to herald some massive expansion in sales. It wasn't. CL qualification just keeps the plates spinning. The wage bill means there is no money to spend. When the horrors of last years accounts filter through, this austerity for them will likely continue for some time. I mean you can believe me, or you can believe the idiots who support them who told you they were definitely signing Mbappe in 2018, 2019 & 2020 and are apparently going to sign Messi this summer. I honestly wish it was a trading market, as I would just take the other side every time and would be a very wealthy man now. That would be my financial advice too, find what they say, and just take the opposite side and see how you're overwhelmingly correct.

Do you think failure to reach top 4 would be worse for them this season, or would have had more of an impact last season?

 

[catcherintherye]

Do you think failure to reach top 4 would be worse for them this season, or would have had more of an impact last season?

Again hard to say. I believe FSG have taken 200m and put it on their balance sheet as debt rather than Liverpool's, which certainly in the short term has helped relieve a lot of the pressure on them. I don't know what they intend to do with that debt, and Moshiri has done similar here and converts to equity, diluting other shareholders which they seem ok with, I'm not as convinced RedBall capital will be so happy with such dilution. So what happens with that debt is interesting, but for for the purposes of this discussion, it has meant a lot of pressure isn't there.

However, next year, theoretically at least they will have had a full year of earnings unimpeded so it would not be as bad. This works to the premise that grounds stay open 100% of the time, and there is 100% take up of the tickets, particularly the expensive tickets/packages which are often sold abroad. I still think that is a bit optimistic, but there's no doubt it will be a lot higher than last season.

I mean, typical "politicians answer" really in that it would depend on a whole host of other variables, and in fairness there area lot of other variables currently. But if I had to pick one, I'd have said this summer would have proven a bigger pinch point for them to miss out on CL, even though the transference of some toxicity on the balance sheets from LFC to FSG.

 

[Zatara]

Again hard to say. I believe FSG have taken 200m and put it on their balance sheet as debt rather than Liverpool's, which certainly in the short term has helped relieve a lot of the pressure on them. I don't know what they intend to do with that debt, and Moshiri has done similar here and converts to equity, diluting other shareholders which they seem ok with, I'm not as convinced RedBall capital will be so happy with such dilution. So what happens with that debt is interesting, but for for the purposes of this discussion, it has meant a lot of pressure isn't there.

However, next year, theoretically at least they will have had a full year of earnings unimpeded so it would not be as bad. This works to the premise that grounds stay open 100% of the time, and there is 100% take up of the tickets, particularly the expensive tickets/packages which are often sold abroad. I still think that is a bit optimistic, but there's no doubt it will be a lot higher than last season.

I mean, typical "politicians answer" really in that it would depend on a whole host of other variables, and in fairness there area lot of other variables currently. But if I had to pick one, I'd have said this summer would have proven a bigger pinch point for them to miss out on CL, even though the transference of some toxicity on the balance sheets from LFC to FSG.

For me id say if they extend the players contracts now, as expected...its going to look a lot worse for them if they dont qualify this season coming.

They could have negotiated with players based on non-qualification...instead, players are negotiating based on top 4 performance levels.

Add that onto the ages of certain players in years time and you have a cauldron of woe brewing.

 

[Toast]

I mean.. wow.. just wow..

 

[LEONARD]

Via the same Scientologist.





Anthony Williamson

@Anthony12028222
·
13 Jul

Liverpool regain the title again for me this season.. Virgil van Dijk back and get one or two more in like Saul Niguez to go with Konate and Liverpool will be flying..

 

[mahermi1]

They are clearly hedging on keeping the current squad together. Within the constraints they exist in (a v high cost base from wages and shareholders who can't/won't invest large sums of money to accumulate in the long run) it's probably quite a smart strategy.

They can't get into an arms race with Chelsea, City or even United. So far, partially because of Klopp and the combination of unique recruitment approach, they have bucked the trend a bit, though last season it seemed to fray a bit. The issue really becomes, eventually you get a mean regression, and the sides that spend more, and attract better players eventually start getting it right.

Last season nobody would have had them out of the top 2 and they came 3rd, but marginally ahead of 4/5th. That feels about their level this season now.

That's the issue with continuing on wage spending. You swap continuity at a certain level for potential upside. If/when Klopp goes you can see a bit of a crisis of this strategy, just as you can if Klopp has another wobbler like he had last season.

Being kind to Konate, he is a good squad option for them, who has the potential to be a 1st team starter. The problem for them is United have bought a CB who on day 1 who will be better than the player Konate could even potentially be. So it's hard to see certain teams not moving further away from them.

You can see clearly, they expected to sell and still might, one of their front three of Salah, Mane and Firminho for a large sum to fund their spree this year. The trio are fast nearing their sell by date. Must say after crying poverty i am still surprised how much the top six are flaunting their wealth up to now, thought everyone was skint ?

 

[Toast]

Hope this fella posts on here..