ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[catcherintherye]

That's why I thought the purchase of Thiago was a peculiar one as he'll be 30 in a month or two alongside the point he doesn't operate along their midfield profile.

I have no idea whatsoever the thinking on that. The more we see though, the ore it feels like a power play between Klopp and the owners. You get that a lot in businesses, that arguments are conducted via essentially totems. That is what I sense Thiago was, a Power play from the manager to get them to break with all of their previous protocols and back him. When you do that, and it goes as spectacularly wrong as it has done, you really weaken your position. I'm pretty sure there current run of 2 wins in 11 (I'm not going to count their win against Aston Villa's children as a win,as the following day Chorley FC beat a youth team) has culminated with his return to the team hasn't it?

 

[hallamblue]

I have no idea whatsoever the thinking on that. The more we see though, the ore it feels like a power play between Klopp and the owners. You get that a lot in businesses, that arguments are conducted via essentially totems. That is what I sense Thiago was, a Power play from the manager to get them to break with all of their previous protocols and back him. When you do that, and it goes as spectacularly wrong as it has done, you really weaken your position. I'm pretty sure there current run of 2 wins in 11 (I'm not going to count their win against Aston Villa's children as a win,as the following day Chorley FC beat a youth team) has culminated with his return to the team hasn't it?

It's a bit like when we signed Lineker. The difference is we then changed our style to suit his play. The rs were never going to be able to change their style. They can only play kick and rush football with that team.

 

[N.S.N.O.]

Think he's 29 next month. Salah 29 in the summer too. But given the amount of minutes and intensity they have played at, they are either done, or close to it. Certainly in the system they are being asked to play.

You will not get these guys, at their age to be able to play Klopps way anymore.

Yep...

Aguero is 32...and look at how injury prone he's been the past 2 years...

If salah and mane want to prolong their careers, which of course they do, they will already have their agents lining up transfers to Spain or Italy

 

[catcherintherye]

It's a bit like when we signed Lineker. The difference is we then changed our style to suit his play. The rs were never going to be able to change their style. They can only play kick and rush football with that team.

Yes. I don't think Klopp has ever really been known to have a different style. As he says plan B is to do plan A better. You're not going to turn Thiago into Henderson or Fabinho though.

 

[catcherintherye]

Yep...

Aguero is 32...and look at how injury prone he's been the past 2 years...

If salah and mane want to prolong their careers, which of course they do, they will already have their agents lining up transfers to Spain or Italy

Yes exactly. The PL is a very hard league for players over 30. Pep and to a greater degree Klopp are at the sharp end of that too, in what they demand from players. There are physical limitations on what players can do.

It's interesting that Mane has started to get niggly injuries. Thats how it starts. Firmino and Salah haven't really had that yet, which is fortunate.

Anyway for all 3, the chances to play abroad, in Spain or Italy, where as a great goal scorer you can stand up front and just score goals must be very tempting. There's a lot more Ancelotti-esque managers (I'm not saying better necessarily, but different in thought processes) who will craft teams around a certain player and give them an opportunity to "cheat" on some of the physical aspects of the job.

 

[BlueIsTheColour]

This dynasty that they had built that would see them dominate for years...didn’t work out so well.
The commentators, after salahs amazing first goal, Leicester scored a controversial equaliser, a second from a mistake and the 3rd as Liverpool were chasing the game. Ha ha, after hearing that I think it would be fair to give Liverpool at least a point all things considered .

 

[PhilM]

I have no idea whatsoever the thinking on that. The more we see though, the ore it feels like a power play between Klopp and the owners. You get that a lot in businesses, that arguments are conducted via essentially totems. That is what I sense Thiago was, a Power play from the manager to get them to break with all of their previous protocols and back him. When you do that, and it goes as spectacularly wrong as it has done, you really weaken your position. I'm pretty sure there current run of 2 wins in 11 (I'm not going to count their win against Aston Villa's children as a win,as the following day Chorley FC beat a youth team) has culminated with his return to the team hasn't it?

This may not follow the common consensus that's currently being mentioned, but I don't think Thiago is a bad player - in fact, he's previously shown otherwise.

Whether he's currently out of form or not is a question which I can't answer, however I'm pretty certain that he doesn't fit the profile of the midfielder they need.

For years now, they've played quick football and their midfielders have been expected to move around, press, cover and move the ball quickly to wing or up front.

Thiago simply doesn't do that and as such his deficiencies come to the fore: in the system they play, he looks very poor and he probably limits their overall play.

Perhaps Klopp was signing him in mind of potentially adapting their style of play or at least having different options, but the way I see it is he's been shoehorned in.

That's not to say they should make wholesale changes to suit him (God, I'm loving their current style!), but why buy him if he doesn't suit the style you wish to play?

Maybe the original reasoning behind purchasing him was sound, yet Klopp's inflexibility has meant that he's been given a raw deal and making the RS play worse.

It reminds me a little of Kanté at Chelsea, who was terrific at Leicester and initially at Chelsea too; he was then told to another job and low-behold he looks poor.

 

[N.S.N.O.]

That's why I thought the purchase of Thiago was a peculiar one as he'll be 30 in a month or two alongside the point he doesn't operate along their midfield profile.

Also, in a interview before a game when Tiago signed, Klopp said he wouldn't be starting games yet because he didn't fit into Liverpool's style, he would have to learn how to fit in....the comment stood out to me because Klopp has always bought players that did fit into his style, the exact right player for each position...

So either Tiago wasn't his decision, or it was a panic buy just to give his squad some depth, essentially better signing him than nobody

 

[TommyDavo]

The red net spenders are out in force again, we didn't strengthen after we won the title. So that £85m on Jota, Thiago and that Greek guy didn't happen then.

To be fair they’ve got a point on the strengthening bit, 85M on that lot

 

[Dublin blue 75]

Slippy will be there next season. And we will never see the likes of the pants creaming this will prompt at Sky.

 

[catcherintherye]

This may not follow the common consensus that's currently being mentioned, but I don't think Thiago is a bad player - in fact, he's previously shown otherwise.

Whether he's currently out of form or not is a question which I can't answer, however I'm pretty certain that he doesn't fit the profile of the midfielder they need.

For years now, they've played quick football and their midfielders have been expected to move around, press, cover and move the ball quickly to wing or up front.

Thiago simply doesn't do that and as such his deficiencies come to the fore: in the system they play, he looks very poor and he probably limits their overall play.

Perhaps Klopp was signing him in mind of potentially adapting their style of play or at least having different options, but the way I see it is he's been shoehorned in.

That's not to say they should make wholesale changes to suit him (God, I'm loving their current style!), but why buy him if he doesn't suit the style you wish to play?

Maybe the original reasoning behind purchasing him was sound, yet Klopp's inflexibility has meant that he's been given a raw deal and making the RS play worse.

I agree with that. He's not a bad player, he's just not a world class player. He's a good, potentially even very good player. But he is playing in a system that just doesn't work for him. I said all this when they signed him too. That he won't be able to pay as a 6, or 8 but will need to play as a 10 in this league. Watch him for Barnes goal yesterday. It's pathetic. He just lets the guy run off him and makes no real effort to chase back. A liability defensively.

Anyway, re Klopp I just think it was a power play, and his vanity said he wanted Thiago. He was probably told no initially, and he had a tantrum over it.

With Thiago, his "numbers" were probably great. But he's playing for an elite team, in a 1 team league (which is not true of Liverpool, who have probably had like 2-3 seasons in the last 30+ years as anything approaching an elite team). He was just going to get away with pointing and allowing everyone else to do the work for him here. Thats the problem with data and numbers really. The context of the side you are playing for is missed. It's easy to look great in an elite team. Not many can look great in an average team (like James does). Thats the difference.

 

[Shibbywiggles]

This may not follow the common consensus that's currently being mentioned, but I don't think Thiago is a bad player - in fact, he's previously shown otherwise.

Whether he's currently out of form or not is a question which I can't answer, however I'm pretty certain that he doesn't fit the profile of the midfielder they need.

For years now, they've played quick football and their midfielders have been expected to move around, press, cover and move the ball quickly to wing or up front.

Thiago simply doesn't do that and as such his deficiencies come to the fore: in the system they play, he looks very poor and he probably limits their overall play.

Perhaps Klopp was signing him in mind of potentially adapting their style of play or at least having different options, but the way I see it is he's been shoehorned in.

That's not to say they should make wholesale changes to suit him (God, I'm loving their current style!), but why buy him if he doesn't suit the style you wish to play?

Maybe the original reasoning behind purchasing him was sound, yet Klopp's inflexibility has meant that he's been given a raw deal and making the RS play worse.

It reminds me a little of Kanté at Chelsea, who was terrific at Leicester and initially at Chelsea too; he was then told to another job and low-behold he looks poor.

He’s a Pirlo type of player, doesn’t fit a Klopp team at all! It’s similar to how Gomes looks decent if he’s next to Allan and Doucoure but looked horrific if he was expected to be the legs next to Sigurdsson.

 

[messymascot]

I think they would have got away with Thiago if Fabinho had been in the midfield alongside him and he could have played further forward. Ultimately he has been hung out to dry by Klopp playing him in a system and position that doesn't suit. The team is in decline and because he wasn't part of the * Champions last season their fans are happy to blame. They should maybe look more closely at the full backs who clearly can't defend and all the other players whose form has fell by the wayside.

 

[mccole]

 

[barneygumble]

The thing you’ve got with Klopp is, it’s quite short termed.

He has undoubtedly done an unbelievable job at Liverpool. He’s took them from Mid Table to winning the two most wanted trophies for any English club.

But he did it at Dortmund, and Dortmund were incredible. They went toe to toe with Bayern, went to a CL final, they were immense.

But then the engine just stopped going. The players couldn’t play to that intensity for that long, the club sold assets and some just didn’t recover. They ended up in the Relegation zones and then Klopp announced he was leaving at the end of the season.

For me, it’ll be Klopps greatest achievement of he managers to get them a league again next season, because he’s ran his players into the ground and they just look done to me.