I'm concerned about the necessity and practicality parts. Less so about the inflammatory parts.
Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon
- Thread starter kithnou
- Start date
- Status
I'm concerned about the necessity and practicality parts. Less so about the inflammatory parts.
“Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems? Make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit, and then, while they’re working and earning here, they’d pay taxes here. And when they want to go back, they can go back. They can cross. Open the borders both ways.”
Well, that was in 1980, 6 years before Reagan did amnesty in exchange for border protections that never occurred. I have no problem with the concept of work permits as needed, provided we actually have the information and apparatus to enforce limits on said permits. It also doesn't do anything to limit the impact of birthright citizenship issues.
So you think Reagan was wrong about the fence?
I'm not convinced Reagan would have been against a fence toward the end/after his Presidency and after the protections he agreed to were eroded, but maybe he spoke on it and I'm not aware of it.
But yes, if Reagan maintained the position against some form of wall/fence/etc., I disagree with that position.
You’ve probably covered it but what are the benefits of a wall over spending that money on other controls?
Well, I haven't really advocated for a wall over anything else. I asked someone why they opposed the wall and everyone just assumed I was an advocate.
I'm an advocate for border security in a very tangible sense. I'm no subject matter expert on enforcement or security. If someone presented me with a compelling argument that the objective could be achieved with some combination of wall/fence, technology and manpower, I'd be perfectly happy with that. But, I think the best argument for the type of "big beautiful wall" that Trump discusses is that it would be difficult to "undo" when the political climate inevitably shifts.
Maybe citizens would eventually be convinced it is some monument to oppression, but hypothetically, I could see people adjusting to it and it being a very difficult sell to destroy it (just as it was to build it). Contrast that with employer penalties, increased manpower on the border, use of drones and tech, etc. All of those are more easily erased when a political opponent takes power.
So the argument would be, I think, we'll do DACA with amnesty of some sort, but we want something real and tangible to avoid a repeat of the Reagan debacle. I think it's unlikely that is entirely comprised of a wall, but it has to be something more than mere promises or policy changes that can be quickly reversed in the future. Of course, who knows what will be agreed to, I'm just putting myself in the shoes of the WH.
Reasoned response but i just think the permanence of a bit part wall is not a good enough reason to spend $ billions that could be better spent on more effective and less aggressive forms of border control.
Can't imagine his attorneys want him speaking under oath.
Yea, Ty Cobb already attempting damage limitation on that one
I think we've managed much better than that. It's not the DMZ or even in the same balllpark of a border. The people there are our friends ffs. They are not an enemy...yet.
Support this with indisputable facts please. Regardless of your answer it doesn't change the fact that a wall is a massive waste of money. The only point you've made that supports a wall is it's not something easily reversed. I agree. A complete waste of tax payers money wasted.
How is our relationship with Mexico complicated? We are deeply in bed with each other in so many ways. Why in the hell would you think it's a good thing to [Poor language removed] Mexico? Do you want an enemy on the Southern Border or do you want a friend?
Furthermore regarding your terrorism *whew we've swerved that with Mexico point...guess you have forgotten about the terrorist that was caught right here in Washington State after crossing the Canadian border. The fella headed to LAX.
BirkenheadBlue
Player Valuation: £70m
We'll do DACA if...
Hearing this a lot from Republicans lately.
It's revoltingly cynical. ~80% of the US public believes that Dreamers should get citizenship, including ~64% of Republican voters... To mention nothing of it just being the morally right thing to do.
But in spite of that the craven ***holes in power in their party use it as a hostage situation.
Hearing this a lot from Republicans lately.
It's revoltingly cynical. ~80% of the US public believes that Dreamers should get citizenship, including ~64% of Republican voters... To mention nothing of it just being the morally right thing to do.
But in spite of that the craven ***holes in power in their party use it as a hostage situation.
Assuming that parties largely want to get elected, why would any support people who can't vote for them? Surely from any rational sense you have to conclude that it's because they believe, or they think their supporters believe, that treating people with respect is a decent thing to do.
- Status