Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[Ruairi77]

The bigger blame, of course, rests with China and an ineffective UN.

yea, thats what I was getting at.
It's also a bit coincidental that all this has kicked off as soon as Trump came to power. It could be said that a mix of diplomacy and the CIA had kept the lid on this pot but that has all disappeared under the Trump administration.
In any normal situation, I don't think NK pose a huge threat but Trump is using this as a distraction. He's poking the beehive so that's what we look at.

 

[abelard]

Speaking of "Ideological Echo Chambers", where are all the Trumplings and fellow travelers on here?

Tired of winning? Working on that time machine to go back in time and vote for Trump some more? Incapacitated with rage over Googlegate?

Are you really going to let the likes of @peteblue lead the line for you? I'd prefer my odds with Altidore... his complicity with the Deep State notwithstanding.

 

[Tubey]

yea, thats what I was getting at.
It's also a bit coincidental that all this has kicked off as soon as Trump came to power. It could be said that a mix of diplomacy and the CIA had kept the lid on this pot but that has all disappeared under the Trump administration.
In any normal situation, I don't think NK pose a huge threat but Trump is using this as a distraction. He's poking the beehive so that's what we look at.

But it didn't all kick off now - it's been kicking off for a long time. The difference is an acknowledgement of the threat instead of putting your fingers in your ears and looking the other way, which is what Obama did.

This should have been the position of the Americans long before now in my view. China had no reason to isolate or influence N. Korea away from doing whatever they wanted because it suited them for North to be the barrier to the South, as it has done since the 50s. If a conflict looks even slightly possible, China has to up their game to prevent it, and when it comes to giving the Chinese a choice between protecting themselves from war on its' borders and telling Korea to do one or backing the DPRK to the hilt, my money is on the former.

 

[Ruairi77]

Speaking of "Ideological Echo Chambers", where are all the Trumplings and fellow travelers on here?

Tired of winning? Working on that time machine to go back in time and vote for Trump some more? Incapacitated with rage over Googlegate?

Are you really going to let the likes of @peteblue lead the line for you? I'd prefer my odds with Altidore... his complicity with the Deep State notwithstanding.

Yup, during the election cycle there were plenty on here winding people up (including the guy who started the thread) but they've all gone to ground. I had a few decent interactions with Tx-bill although we're polar opposites politically. Cant be an easy job defending the indefensible I'd imagine.

 

[Tubey]

You don't know what you're talking about.

Diplomacy is the only thing that has ever led to any progress with North Korea. China is begging for it. South Korea is begging for it. Japan is begging for it - though none of this is ever emphasized in the press here.

But the US has totally given up on diplomacy since the Bush administration, which scuppered the very real progress Clinton had made (having first tried and failed to devise a military solution), with vague promises to "do something" more assertive. Obama largely pursued the same policy, after having issued the same vague and ultimately meaning promises.

And now here we are, too late to really bargain anymore, since they already have what they've long been pursuing - the only surefire way, in light of Hussein, Gaddafi, and almost 75 years of US-sponsored coups around the world, to be left alone. With Donald Trump's small fingers at the trigger.

You should try reading about this some time. Bruce Cummings would be a great place to start.

You failed to note my "diplomacy" in inverted commas. I'm well aware it's been a joke.

So you are saying I don't know what I'm talking about by then agreeing with everything I bloody said, apart from my belief that now the cat is out of the box, the only way to contain them is by making it so uncomfortable for China that they have to act and suppress the DPRK.

 

[Ruairi77]

But it didn't all kick off now - it's been kicking off for a long time. The difference is an acknowledgement of the threat instead of putting your fingers in your ears and looking the other way, which is what Obama did.

This should have been the position of the Americans long before now in my view. China had no reason to isolate or influence N. Korea away from doing whatever they wanted because it suited them for North to be the barrier to the South, as it has done since the 50s. If a conflict looks even slightly possible, China has to up their game to prevent it, and when it comes to giving the Chinese a choice between protecting themselves from war on its' borders and telling Korea to do one or backing the DPRK to the hilt, my money is on the former.

Valid point about China, but diplomacy is the key as it was in Iran. The North Koreans know they can antagonize Trump in a way they never could with Obama.

 

[Ruairi77]

You failed to note my "diplomacy" in inverted commas. I'm well aware it's been a joke.

So you are saying I don't know what I'm talking about by then agreeing with everything I bloody said, apart from my belief that now the cat is out of the box, the only way to contain them is by making it so uncomfortable for China that they have to act and suppress the DPRK.

China have come out and said they won't support the DPRK if they're the aggressor.

 

[Tubey]

Valid point about China, but diplomacy is the key as it was in Iran. The North Koreans know they can antagonize Trump in a way they never could with Obama.

Bit of a difference between a hermit state like the DPRK and an arguably backwards but still in the real world state like Iran.

The problem with having a rogue state like North Korea in charge of a nuclear weapon is there are no checks and balances that usually apply to the mega-powers that have access to such weaponry. It's ridiculously dangerous.

The aim of the post-Cold War status quo should have been to retain that exact thing at all costs - the status quo. The fact the DPRK now have even limited access to this weaponry is damning on the US, UN and China's completely inability to act and do the right thing five, ten years ago.

 

[Tubey]

China have come out and said they won't support the DPRK if they're the aggressor.

Which means literally nothing mate. Sorry, but it doesn't - look up the Gleiwitz Incident etc. - "aggressor" can be spun any way you see fit.

 

[Ruairi77]

Bit of a difference between a hermit state like the DPRK and an arguably backwards but still in the real world state like Iran.

The problem with having a rogue state like North Korea in charge of a nuclear weapon is there are no checks and balances that usually apply to the mega-powers that have access to such weaponry. It's ridiculously dangerous.

The aim of the post-Cold War status quo should have been to retain that exact thing at all costs - the status quo. The fact the DPRK now have even limited access to this weaponry is damning on the US, UN and China's completely inability to act and do the right thing five, ten years ago.

Yea, I agree with all of this, I just don't have confidence in the way Trump is handling it. I still think theres room for an Iran type deal. I also think Trump is using this as a distraction.
Basically, in my opinion, we have an incompetent leader with no diplomacy skills threatening nuclear war in order to distract from his many other digressions.
Perhaps a heavy handed approach is needed, I just don't trust Trump with that responsibility.

 

[Tubey]

Yea, I agree with all of this, I just don't have confidence in the way Trump is handling it. I still think theres room for an Iran type deal. I also think Trump is using this as a distraction.
Basically, in my opinion, we have an incompetent leader with no diplomacy skills threatening nuclear war in order to distract from his many other digressions.
Perhaps a heavy handed approach is needed, I just don't trust Trump with that responsibility.

That's fair enough. I'd rather he wasn't in the position to deal with it too, to put it mildly.

At this point though, after Trump, Brexit and Corbyn, I pretty much expect stupid people, votes and decisions on a world scale.

 

[Ruairi77]

At this point though, after Trump, Brexit and Corbyn, I pretty much expect stupid people, votes and decisions on a world scale.

at least football starts tomorrow!

 

[peteblue]

Yup, during the election cycle there were plenty on here winding people up (including the guy who started the thread) but they've all gone to ground. I had a few decent interactions with Tx-bill although we're polar opposites politically. Cant be an easy job defending the indefensible I'd imagine.

Oh I don't know, there are a few Clinton and Obama supporters on here giving it a try, failing but at least trying.......

 

[peteblue]

at least football starts tomorrow!

It will be Trumps fault if we lose......

 

[davek]

Has he killed us yet?