Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

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tsubaki said:
That story is a good indicator of the level of opposition to Trump. One of Trumps' minions sends a memo about a proposed move. It gets leaked almost immediately and circulated globally as "troops round up unauthorized migrants", causing a fume. Everyone talks about how shocking it is, whilst not mentioning the executive order that he signed on the subject didn't actually contain any of it, and the NG is largely under the control of their states anyway.
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True, but the fact that it was even considered is cause for concern, if any more were needed
 
Ruairi77 said:
True, but the fact that it was even considered is cause for concern, if any more were needed
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That is what one would think, though it turns out something very close to being similar to this (the National Guard were sent to the border to patrol, build bits of fence and act as "eyes and ears" but without arrest powers) went on under Bush II and Obama.
 
Ruairi77 said:
True, but the fact that it was even considered is cause for concern, if any more were needed
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I'm not sure if it was considered but, when advisors to the president present a plan for something to him they give 3 options, a hard, a medium, and a soft option. It is known as The Three Bears. If a plan was presented re: deportation of a large number of illegal aliens it is probably this was the "hard" option.

The USA has "considered" invading Canada. Plans were drawn up, and are likely in a cabinet or on a shelf somewhere, detailing this invasion to liberate Canada from the Soviet Union had it been necessary.

I think we'd all be surprised at some things governments have considered.
 
OldDominionBlue said:
I'm not sure if it was considered but, when advisors to the president present a plan for something to him they give 3 options, a hard, a medium, and a soft option. It is known as The Three Bears. If a plan was presented re: deportation of a large number of illegal aliens it is probably this was the "hard" option.

The USA has "considered" invading Canada. Plans were drawn up, and are likely in a cabinet or on a shelf somewhere, detailing this invasion to liberate Canada from the Soviet Union had it been necessary.

I think we'd all be surprised at some things governments have considered.
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Yup. Have a friend who was involved in one of the simulations done for a war with North Korea. The predicted casualty rate on both sides was massive
 
mezzrow said:
A fight is on between what Kristol called the "deep state" and "the Trump state". It marks an escalation between the incoming Trump crew and the coalition consisting of establishment Republicans, Democrats, media and intelligence bureaucrats. It's a poorly lit scene, like the Alien vs Predator or Godzilla vs Muto movies which it resembles, and its hard to see where the borders of the action begin and end. It could be big; it could be little, but all you care about is staying away from the trampling feet and slashing blades.

Michael Walsh suggests the whole federal bureaucracy has been booby-trapped by an outgoing administration that never conceded the election but only went underground. "This story, from the Jan. 12, 2017, edition of the New York Times, was little-remarked upon at the time, but suddenly has taken on far greater significance in light of current events:"

In its final days, the Obama administration has expanded the power of the National Security Agency to share globally intercepted personal communications with the government’s 16 other intelligence agencies before applying privacy protections.

The new rules significantly relax longstanding limits on what the N.S.A. may do with the information gathered by its most powerful surveillance operations, which are largely unregulated by American wiretapping laws. These include collecting satellite transmissions, phone calls and emails that cross network switches abroad, and messages between people abroad that cross domestic network switches.

The suggestion is the Deep State was given a last-minute grant of authority to wait until the incoming administration walked in the door before blowing the political Claymores. So poisonous is the atmosphere that there are even more incredible allegations, which were it not for the times, would sound absurd. Stuart Winer of the Times of Israel says a source informs him that the CIA is vaccinating America against Russian blackmail by doing it first. "The CIA has reportedly been working to prevent the possibility of the Kremlin blackmailing US President Donald Trump by deliberately making public everything regarding the president’s ties with Russia."

A report Wednesday by Israeli website Walla news’s veteran diplomatic correspondent Oren Nahari cited an Israeli official, who said a senior member of the US intelligence community told him the agency suspects that Russia has information on Trump that can be used to pressure the US leader. As a countermeasure, US intelligence operatives are quickly leaking everything they learn about ties between Russia and the Trump administration so that the information can’t be used as leverage against the president.

The danger of America dividing in the face of an opportunistic enemy should be obvious to the combatants. But the factions of American politics may be too enraged to stop out of fear of a common threat. Noooo! echoes like a howl through the woods. Suicidal factionalism has torn apart famous nations before. Rome's Crisis of the Third Century being the most famous example. "The crisis began with the assassination of Emperor Severus Alexander by his own troops in 235, initiating a 50-year period in which there were at least 26 claimants to the title of Emperor, mostly prominent Roman army generals, who assumed imperial power over all or part of the Empire. The same number of men became accepted by the Roman Senate as emperor during this period and so became legitimate emperors."

If Trump is overthrown by the Deep State in a year, he's unlikely to be the last. If neither faction will suffer itself to be governed by the other, whoever succeeds Trump can expect his term to be short. America could have its own period of the 26 presidents. That will be good news for the Barbarians, waiting at the edge of Baltics, in the South China Sea and on Europe's borders, ready to move in.

Rome's Third Century crisis did not end well. The new normal was not a return to the Golden Age, but the end of it. It resulted in a landscape with a broken internal trade network and a patchwork of locality. America's own Third Century, which began so hopefully in 1976, is now heading to a place no one could have forseen. There is no road back to the past; there never is. All that is on offer is a choice of murky futures.

RTWT

https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2017/02/15/the-fight-for-washington/

In these times I think of the words of Brecht -

“Some party hack decreed that the people had lost the government's confidence and could only regain it with redoubled effort. If that is the case, would it not be simpler, if the government simply dissolved the people and elected another?”
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lol... the alt-right has such a flair for the conspiratorially dramatic. and for lazy classical history analogies. Rome has been on the verge of falling in Washington for at least 200 years.

(Adams to Jefferson, Feb. 3, 1812
https://www.loc.gov/item/mtjbib020824/

Their communications only recently having been restarted, Adams uses the looming threat of Britain and the War of 1812 to draw comparisons to the fall of the Roman Empire. The nation has since grown large, in no small part due to Jefferson’s Louisiana Purchase. To this end, Adams is calling on Jefferson for the two of them put aside their past rivalries and stand together for the good of the entire nation. This is underscored by Adams’ list of the revolutionaries who have passed and thus cannot stand up for the Union and relating that “I have Sacrificed my Popularity in New England”, only to still be turned away in the South as a Northerner. Taken together, Adams seems to use the disaster of Roman factionalism to call on Jefferson to oppose the brewing war, which his party was pushing for, but which in Adams’ view would only benefit the South, at the detriment of the country.)

mezzrow said:
If Trump is overthrown by the Deep State in a year, he's unlikely to be the last. If neither faction will suffer itself to be governed by the other, whoever succeeds Trump can expect his term to be short. America could have its own period of the 26 presidents.
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Is this you? or still your life coach?

It is one possible outcome, but, in my humble opinion, an fairly farfetched and unlikely one.

The US has a long history of corrupt morons serving as President. though both left and right regularly appeal to it, there's never really been an exalted golden age where everyone was an honourable gentleman patriot, and the rule of law was unscrupulously upheld. the 19th century, for example, had at least a 1:1 incompetent:competent Presidential ratio.

Trump is a spoiled and lazy adolescent, and Bannon is an angry internet masturbator. they are already historically unpopular after just weeks in office, and that's before the Trump Administration takes away Trump voters' health care. They are more than capable of overthrowing themselves - it won't require an elaborate 80s B-list/made-for-TV-movie's deep state conspiracy plot.

There were plenty of leaks during the Obama administration, despite his "snitches get stitches" policy on whistle-blowing, and they came not from some right-wing conspiratorial cabal, but from conscientious individuals. Trump has inspired a lot of individuals to become a lot more conscientious, and he provides them with a lot more that is in the public interest to leak.

A more likely outcome is Trump becoming another Warren Harding-type figure (Harding was by all accounts a bumbling idiot who effectively sold ministries and cabinet posts to shady business interests, and who was successfully blackmailed by one of his stable of mistresses): quickly transcended and happily forgotten.

He only won in the first place by a slim and improbable margin, and his popularity has already plummeted from there. He is loathed by the entirety of blue America, and at least half of red America (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/republicans-obamacare-protests-safety-234733http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/republicans-obamacare-protests-safety-234733 ; http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/jason-chaffetz-town-hall-234882). ^These do not look like people who will be voting for Nixon in '72, so to speak.

And many of his constituents will turn too, after it dawns on them that he has no ability much less interest in helping them (of course there will always be a harmless online rump ie www.bubbabubble.com or whatever your college football websites are called, or a certain forum Texan, who will welcome literally anything Trump does so long as it's seen to annoy liberals).

The US system is perfectly capable of absorbing and then discarding something like Trump, before righting itself and resuming its previous bi-partisan corporate course. Both parties are more than capable of once again co-opting and then ignoring the sort of people who think that voting for Donald Trump will deliver effective long-term political change. Returning to the previous normalcy would of course be bad, but bad in a predictable, banal, sort of way.

In other words, if Donald Trump supporters were actually capable of building a coherent political movement or effecting lasting political change, much less leading some sort of military revolution against "the deep state," as you/your spirit animal suggest, they wouldn't have been so credulous and gullible as to expect a petulant TV-star con man with the attention span of a child to solve their problems in the first place.
 
abelard said:
lol... the alt-right has such a flair for the conspiratorially dramatic. and for lazy classical history analogies. Rome has been on the verge of falling in Washington for at least 200 years.

(Adams to Jefferson, Feb. 3, 1812
https://www.loc.gov/item/mtjbib020824/

Their communications only recently having been restarted, Adams uses the looming threat of Britain and the War of 1812 to draw comparisons to the fall of the Roman Empire. The nation has since grown large, in no small part due to Jefferson’s Louisiana Purchase. To this end, Adams is calling on Jefferson for the two of them put aside their past rivalries and stand together for the good of the entire nation. This is underscored by Adams’ list of the revolutionaries who have passed and thus cannot stand up for the Union and relating that “I have Sacrificed my Popularity in New England”, only to still be turned away in the South as a Northerner. Taken together, Adams seems to use the disaster of Roman factionalism to call on Jefferson to oppose the brewing war, which his party was pushing for, but which in Adams’ view would only benefit the South, at the detriment of the country.)



Is this you? or still your life coach?

It is one possible outcome, but, in my humble opinion, an fairly farfetched and unlikely one.

The US has a long history of corrupt morons serving as President. though both left and right regularly appeal to it, there's never really been an exalted golden age where everyone was an honourable gentleman patriot, and the rule of law was unscrupulously upheld. the 19th century, for example, had at least a 1:1 incompetent:competent Presidential ratio.

Trump is a spoiled and lazy adolescent, and Bannon is an angry internet masturbator. they are already historically unpopular after just weeks in office, and that's before the Trump Administration takes away Trump voters' health care. They are more than capable of overthrowing themselves - it won't require an elaborate 80s B-list/made-for-TV-movie's deep state conspiracy plot.

There were plenty of leaks during the Obama administration, despite his "snitches get stitches" policy on whistle-blowing, and they came not from some right-wing conspiratorial cabal, but from conscientious individuals. Trump has inspired a lot of individuals to become a lot more conscientious, and he provides them with a lot more that is in the public interest to leak.

A more likely outcome is Trump becoming another Warren Harding-type figure (Harding was by all accounts a bumbling idiot who effectively sold ministries and cabinet posts to shady business interests, and who was successfully blackmailed by one of his stable of mistresses): quickly transcended and happily forgotten.

He only won in the first place by a slim and improbable margin, and his popularity has already plummeted from there. He is loathed by the entirety of blue America, and at least half of red America (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/republicans-obamacare-protests-safety-234733http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/republicans-obamacare-protests-safety-234733 ; http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/jason-chaffetz-town-hall-234882). ^These do not look like people who will be voting for Nixon in '72, so to speak.

And many of his constituents will turn too, after it dawns on them that he has no ability much less interest in helping them (of course there will always be a harmless online rump ie www.bubbabubble.com or whatever your college football websites are called, or a certain forum Texan, who will welcome literally anything Trump does so long as it's seen to annoy liberals).

The US system is perfectly capable of absorbing and then discarding something like Trump, before righting itself and resuming its previous bi-partisan corporate course. Both parties are more than capable of once again co-opting and then ignoring the sort of people who think that voting for Donald Trump will deliver effective long-term political change. Returning to the previous normalcy would of course be bad, but bad in a predictable, banal, sort of way.

In other words, if Donald Trump supporters were actually capable of building a coherent political movement or effecting lasting political change, much less leading some sort of military revolution against "the deep state," as you/your spirit animal suggest, they wouldn't have been so credulous and gullible as to expect a petulant TV-star con man with the attention span of a child to solve their problems in the first place.
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As always, happy to help.

Thanks for sharing.
 
mezzrow said:
Oh, heck no.

All I have to say is that I'd take Harding over the train wreck that was Wilson any day and just sit back and wait for the show. :cool:

*awaits Teapot Dome lesson*
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that is certainly not an "orthodox school" position. i suspect the contours of the Teapot Dome lesson are probably familiar to all... but I would be curious to learn more about Wilson, any time you're feeling inspired.
 
abelard said:
that is certainly not an "orthodox school" position. i suspect the contours of the Teapot Dome lesson are probably familiar to all... but I would be curious to learn more about Wilson, any time you're feeling inspired.
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tee_ball.jpg


I'll be back. Needs its own thread. Maybe "Liberal Fascism in the USA - An Intellectual History"

Should be lively and educational. Just picture a poster of brave doughboys going over the top in the Ardennes with the caption:

"He Kept Us Out Of War"

Except that something like that would have been a direct challenge to the sedition laws passed in 1918.

In June 1918, the Socialist Party figure Eugene V. Debs of Indiana was arrested for violating the Sedition Act by undermining the government's conscription efforts. He was sentenced to ten years in prison. He served his sentence in the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary from April 13, 1919, until December 1921, when President Harding commuted Debs' sentence to time served, effective on December 25, Christmas Day.[22]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918
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Oh, the places we'll go...
 
tsubaki said:
That story is a good indicator of the level of opposition to Trump. One of Trumps' minions sends a memo about a proposed move. It gets leaked almost immediately and circulated globally as "troops round up unauthorized migrants", causing a fume. Everyone talks about how shocking it is, whilst not mentioning the executive order that he signed on the subject didn't actually contain any of it, and the NG is largely under the control of their states anyway.
Click to expand...

So you don't think it's shocking at all that someone in Trump's administration was emboldened to suggest such a thing in the first place?
 
mezzrow said:
tee_ball.jpg


I'll be back. Needs its own thread. Maybe "Liberal Fascism in the USA - An Intellectual History"

Should be lively and educational. Just picture a poster of brave doughboys going over the top in the Ardennes with the caption:

"He Kept Us Out Of War"

Except that something like that would have been a direct challenge to the sedition laws passed in 1918.



Oh, the places we'll go...
Click to expand...

Looking forward to it. Us lefties also know all about the Sedition Acts.
 
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