Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

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He's a poor quality politician who happens to be extremely good at marketing. The best historical comparisons are P.T. Barnum, Pulitzer and Hearst, who all managed to get elected to relatively minor offices for short tenures (up to and including the House). As politics became more marketing and less bargaining, as a result of both the increased importance of campaign contributions and the emergence of social media, a space for someone like Trump emerged.

As famous as all three of those historical figures are, I would argue that all of them left behind a rather superficial legacy.

TBF I think his rise should have demonstrated to everyone where politics-as-bargaining ends up - in absurdity.

From this side of the pond, the US political system has for years been completely and utterly dysfunctional. It produces bad leaders, bad policy and bad outcomes for the US and the world. The few people (on both sides) who do turn up and try to reform it invariably either get personally compromised by trying to make the system work or get sidelined / ridiculed.

In that sense it should be entirely understandable why people, deep down, support him. They are wrong, but the current alternative is also wrong.
 
Maybe, but it's utterly impossible to compare Trump's legacy to those three. We're only half way through the show. Even after he's gone it'll take a decade or three to comprehend his achievements(or lack thereof). It took that long to appreciate Barry Goldwater's influence. Trump's already altered the media landscape(for the worse imo), he's seriously undermined two major news networks, and partly as a result of Trump trust in many American institutions is near an all time low.
Dude's old. I don't agree there at all. I would also disagree with respect to comprehending Goldwater's legacy. He became controversial due to context, but everyone knew what he stood for at the time.

With respect to the 'trust in American institutions' thing, Marc Hetherington has been banging that drum for two decades, very persuasively IMO. His argument (my synopsis of his statements) runs like this: the entire strategy of Buckley et al was to destroy trust in American institutions, so that Americans would starve the government of funding and 'prove' that government is not a valid problem-solving tool. Trump is more a symptom than a problem, along that line of reasoning.
 
Dude's old. I don't agree there at all. I would also disagree with respect to comprehending Goldwater's legacy. He became controversial due to context, but everyone knew what he stood for at the time.

With respect to the 'trust in American institutions' thing, Marc Hetherington has been banging that drum for two decades, very persuasively IMO. His argument (my synopsis of his statements) runs like this: the entire strategy of Buckley et al was to destroy trust in American institutions, so that Americans would starve the government of funding and 'prove' that government is not a valid problem-solving tool. Trump is more a symptom than a problem, along that line of reasoning.
“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” - Ronald Reagan, August 12, 1986
 
TBF I think his rise should have demonstrated to everyone where politics-as-bargaining ends up - in absurdity.

From this side of the pond, the US political system has for years been completely and utterly dysfunctional. It produces bad leaders, bad policy and bad outcomes for the US and the world. The few people (on both sides) who do turn up and try to reform it invariably either get personally compromised by trying to make the system work or get sidelined / ridiculed.

In that sense it should be entirely understandable why people, deep down, support him. They are wrong, but the current alternative is also wrong.
Politics-as-bargaining works, provided people send competent representatives to Washington. That hasn't been happening reliably for some time now. If you want my opinion, decades of gerrymandering have resulted in the House being filled with members who can get re-elected by posturing to a local audience without any obligation to produce results. They can get away with just blaming the other side for their failures. It's not much different in the states with 'safe' Senate seats, which is a lot of them.

Most House general elections are not competitive, and the electoral threat is from within one's own party. That gave the Speakers and their strong fundraisers in leadership far more power over the rank and file than they had possessed in decades, which is why we see far more party line votes in the House than we once did. We're back to pre-Civil War politics, fighting over indivisible social issues, and having the most extreme politicians on both sides vacuum up the media oxygen. Reality is that extremism is newsworthy, and that maps directly onto fundraising and political survival in the present environment.

There's a stack of quality bargaining theory that says this never ends well. Crazy as it may sound, we want politicians fighting over zeroes in budget deals and pork barrel politics. If it makes any sense, it's similar to how we would prefer EU politicians to be fighting over terms of trade than over immigration.

When we fight over numbers, there's an underlying assumption that we're better off together than we are separately. Problems tend to get solved as a result. Once we start fighting over things that are indivisible, that underlying assumption breaks down. Somebody 100% wins and somebody 100% loses on any binary-outcome issue, and the fight becomes finding a way to stick it to the other side. That pathway leads to dysfunction and divorce.
 
“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” - Ronald Reagan, August 12, 1986
Yup, that is Buckley's entire argument in a nutshell, which is what happens when you give people with strong communication skills a couple of decades to work on a problem like that.
 
You’re right. I was incorrect on Wapo. My mistake. (See, it’s easy admitting you’re wrong on the internet, dunno why some people have such a problem with it).

No comments on the others though?
I did say the media establishment was almost always against him. By establishment I meant old, legacy media outlets such as NYT, Wapo, almost all the networks etc. Trump probably had slightly greater new media for him than legacy media, but even then it was mostly against and hard against at that. The media's utter hatred of Richard Nixon pales in comparison to their anti-Trump bias.
 
Dude's old. I don't agree there at all. I would also disagree with respect to comprehending Goldwater's legacy. He became controversial due to context, but everyone knew what he stood for at the time.

With respect to the 'trust in American institutions' thing, Marc Hetherington has been banging that drum for two decades, very persuasively IMO. His argument (my synopsis of his statements) runs like this: the entire strategy of Buckley et al was to destroy trust in American institutions, so that Americans would starve the government of funding and 'prove' that government is not a valid problem-solving tool. Trump is more a symptom than a problem, along that line of reasoning.
Yet as far back as living memory will allow government spending has increased almost each and every year. There is a strange disconnect between a government that spends more and more each year and the same institutions starved of funds. You don't get $31 trillion in debt by starving government institutions of funds.
 
I did say the media establishment was almost always against him. By establishment I meant old, legacy media outlets such as NYT, Wapo, almost all the networks etc. Trump probably had slightly greater new media for him than legacy media, but even then it was mostly against and hard against at that. The media's utter hatred of Richard Nixon pales in comparison to their anti-Trump bias.
You are kidding, right?

Legacy media outlets could not have written a character that was better for their bottom line if they had tried. They may have postured with respect to Trump, the better to attract both views in agreement and hate watches, but he was great for business. A very sizable fraction of Trump's past sins flew right under the radar in most legacy outlets until after he was elected.

Nixon, by contrast, was both loathed and taken down by traditional outlets.

Yet as far back as living memory will allow government spending has increased almost each and every year. There is a strange disconnect between a government that spends more and more each year and the same institutions starved of funds. You don't get $31 trillion in debt by starving government institutions of funds.
Increases in spending tend to follow from increases in GDP. That part is normal.

If you're trying to argue that Republicans are today's fiscal conservatives, you cannot be serious. That went right out the window once Kasich left the House and a pair of wars in the Middle East started. That argument was already imperiled by Reagan buying into Kemp's nonsense, but those events settled it.
 
I did say the media establishment was almost always against him. By establishment I meant old, legacy media outlets such as NYT, Wapo, almost all the networks etc. Trump probably had slightly greater new media for him than legacy media, but even then it was mostly against and hard against at that. The media's utter hatred of Richard Nixon pales in comparison to their anti-Trump bias.

So, left leaning media was anti-trump, and right leaning media was pro Trump. Media partisanship is not a new invention.
 
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