Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

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tsubaki said:
Mexico and Brazil aren't that much far behind Venezuela, and might well be in a similar place to them if the regional hegemon had interfered in their internal affairs to the same extent.
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Mexico and Brazil can at least still afford to print money, it seems. That simple action is beyond the ability of the Venezuelan government at present, as their inability to pay suppliers for the previously issued notes makes it impossible to get any more printed. That's what happens when the gold reserves start to run out. How did Chavez's daughter get so rich, anyway?

The diminished flow of Mexican refugees to el Norte indicates that things are very much better economically despite the high crime rate.

(btw, Spurs are just putting on a show here this morning. lovely stuff.)

tsubaki said:
Constantinople fell because the Byzantines spent nearly a millennium taking power and wealth off the poor and spending it on the rich, so that when the crises hit they were progressively less able to deal with them. This followed the Romans destroying themselves from doing the same thing, and was followed by the Ottomans doing it as well. The same phenomenon is seen in historical Muslim regimes so often that it is almost a cliche, and led to the one conflict honoured with the title of Civil War over here.
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This appears to me to be entirely consistent with the point of the essay that was so bollocks a brief time ago.

Others may differ, but that's what I see.
 
tsubaki said:
On one level - that people are poorer - perhaps, but that article claimed that it was "socialism" that had led to this sorry pass, which is demonstrably wrong.
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abelard said:
so the answer to my original question is a "no" then?
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The closest I can think off the top of my head would be Switzerland, which is very socialist in many realms, and is hardly a "tax haven" for residents. Life lived properly is very socialist in many realms, but I admire their commitment to home rule, federalism, personal freedom and responsibility, and property rights. The way that technology, our biological evolution, and societies in general evolve over the coming years may make this more possible to scale.

I concede that scaling the Swiss Confederation is a substantial issue.
 
mezzrow said:
The closest I can think off the top of my head would be Switzerland, which is very socialist in many realms, and is hardly a "tax haven" for residents. Life lived properly is very socialist in many realms, but I admire their commitment to home rule, federalism, personal freedom and responsibility, and property rights. The way that technology, our biological evolution, and societies in general evolve over the coming years may make this more possible to scale.

I concede that scaling the Swiss Confederation is a substantial issue.
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it seems like a pleasant enough place.

mezzrow said:
Life lived properly is very socialist in many realms
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and I would agree with this.

you know that Obamacare was modeled after the Swiss healthcare system? of course in Switzerland, the government is much, much more forceful in compelling people to enroll, which lowers the premiums considerably because of private insurers' savings on the young and relatively healthy.

i suspect that you don't accept becoming more like Switzerland as a solution in the American context though.
 
abelard said:
it seems like a pleasant enough place.



and I would agree with this.

you know that Obamacare was modeled after the Swiss healthcare system? of course in Switzerland, the government is much, much more forceful in compelling people to enroll, which lowers the premiums considerably because of private insurers' savings on the young and relatively healthy.

i suspect that you don't accept becoming more like Switzerland as a solution in the American context though.
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I wouldn't rule it out. The French plan has lots to teach us as well. I don't think any solution that is crammed down by one side against the unified objections of another side will stand long term, and that's what we currently have. Regrettably, that's probably how it will be repealed and replaced, which won't be much better.

Obamacare is a mess because of political concerns. What they need to do is be honest about nationalizing health insurance and sell that. If the electorate approves that, I have no problem with it. Personally, I've kept my doctor, but my plan costs much more and pays for much less. We've been blessed with good health and it hasn't been put under much stress. The USA has been running on a system cobbled together to skirt around wage-freeze rules in the Second World War to package tax breaks and insurance coverage as a benefit for workers in an era of labor shortages when they could not offer pay raises as inducements for employment due to wartime controls.

We can do better.
 
tsubaki said:
Mexico and Brazil aren't that much far behind Venezuela, and might well be in a similar place to them if the regional hegemon had interfered in their internal affairs to the same extent.



Constantinople fell because the Byzantines spent nearly a millennium taking power and wealth off the poor and spending it on the rich, so that when the crises hit they were progressively less able to deal with them. This followed the Romans destroying themselves from doing the same thing, and was followed by the Ottomans doing it as well. The same phenomenon is seen in historical Muslim regimes so often that it is almost a cliche, and it also led to the one conflict honoured with the title of Civil War over here.
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It's amazing how Venezuela can sit on top of the worlds largest oil reserves and make a total mess of it......
 
tsubaki said:
That article is absolute bollocks. What has failed in the US (and the UK) is not socialism - which the US has never had, and which was got rid of here between 1979 and 2007 - its the bastardized capitalist system whereby public funds (both directly in terms of taxes, and by citizens "taking on risk") get given to private concerns / firms to do various things incompetently and at vast cost compared to public ownership.
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On that, I am in complete agreement with you.

An economic recovery has not taken place because none of that massive waste has been dealt with (in fact over here at least things have gotten much worse). Until it, and the corruption that is demonstrably associated with it, is dealt with, the West will continue to stagnate and be afflicted by populism of the negative kind.
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I've got a funny feeling that appointing Goldman Sachs peeps to top govt positions is not going to bring the renewal and purge that you crave so much. Never pin your hopes on a rattlesnake.
 
peteblue said:
It's amazing how Venezuela can sit on top of the worlds largest oil reserves and make a total mess of it......
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Venezuela is exceptionally badly managed, but the commodities market giveth and the commodities market taketh away, and all petro-states have suffered from the price of oil collapsing. unlike, say, Alberta, Venezuela doesn't have a higher authority it can blame for everything and take bailouts from. and it's not as though the opposition would have handled it much better.

in the nineteenth century, and, for slower learners, up until the Great Depression, when enlightened rulers used to take people like David Ricardo seriously and devote entire national economies to cash crops, commodities crises used to really sting. Chile = nitrates, Guatemala = cochineal, Cuba = sugar etc.
 
abelard said:
Venezuela is exceptionally badly managed, but the commodities market giveth and the commodities market taketh away, and all petro-states have suffered from the price of oil collapsing. unlike, say, Alberta, Venezuela doesn't have a higher authority it can blame for everything and take bailouts from. and it's not as though the opposition would have handled it much better.

in the nineteenth century, and, for slower learners, up until the Great Depression, when enlightened rulers used to take people like David Ricardo seriously and devote entire national economies to cash crops, commodities crises used to really sting. Chile = nitrates, Guatemala = cochineal, Cuba = sugar etc.
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Chile, Guatemala - the Marxists lost. One is doing relatively well in their regional economic/social table, the other is a banana basket case.
League score - .500

Cuba, Venezuela - the Marxists won. One is further down the socialist road in terms of time, but both prove that there is a great of ruin in a nation. Either could and should have been far more prosperous than Chile at present, but for ideology. Venezuela was rich but hideously unequal until relatively recent times. In both cases, their capitalists chose poorly before the revolution came. Successful capitalism requires a fine balance of greed and wisdom. When greed triumphs over all, tragedy is just around the corner. Still through it all, the Venezuelans are a world model in music education. Many expat Venezuelans make their living here in orchestras, for example. They teach me a lot about a lot of things.

I know a guy who fixes old clarinets and ships them down there. I know him all too well.
League score - .000.
 
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