Donald Trump for President Thread

[dholliday]

But there is a Hillary effigy being burnt there, isn't that her head cradled in Trump's arm?

If their positions had been reversed, ie Donald's head in Hillary's arm, then doubt the reaction would have been any different.

If it had been one candidate effigy just being burnt on their own then think the partisans of that candidate would have moaned a bit, certainly seen both sides get irritated by those kinds of things.

It depends on the echo chamber.


What's your view on Jill Stein? She barely gets press but she has the soundest and most sensible ideas from the lot. Might she make a dent or do people not see her seriously?

 

[abelard]

It depends on the echo chamber.


What's your view on Jill Stein? She barely gets press but she has the soundest and most sensible ideas from the lot. Might she make a dent or do people not see her seriously?

I don't really think anyone takes her seriously. Or, for more obvious reasons, Johnson, for that matter (do I get another treat, @mezzrow?). People still blame Nader for Bush II.

It is preposterous though, that such an enormous, diverse country only has two parties. Trump might yet change that though, depending on how bad it is on Tuesday. Republicans haven't been able to win elections without his supporters since Nixon.

Very few people under 40 are excited about Hillary, in my experience, but the general view is something like "the grownups already had their election, and the good guy lost."

 

[TheFinnFan]

"As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton routinely asked her maid to print out sensitive government e-mails and documents — including ones containing classified information — from her house in Washington, DC, e-mails and FBI memos show."

way to go Hillary lol

 

[mezzrow]

(do I get another treat, @mezzrow?)

 

[dholliday]

I don't really think anyone takes her seriously. Or, for more obvious reasons, Johnson, for that matter (do I get another treat, @mezzrow?). People still blame Nader for Bush II.

It is preposterous though, that such an enormous, diverse country only has two parties. Trump might yet change that though, depending on how bad it is on Tuesday. Republicans haven't been able to win elections without his supporters since Nixon.

Very few people under 40 are excited about Hillary, in my experience, but the general view is something like "the grownups already had their election, and the good guy lost."

The two-party hegemony seems to be a natural state within major nation democracies. See UK & Germany with their respective Tory/Labour and CDU/SPD outfits dominating governmental politics for the last 70 years or so. It's a solid system which keeps the economy relatively stable while staying ahead of the competition.

A coalition of sorts would be beneficial to US however if for example Stein gets 10%+ of the vote, she and the Green Party should get meaningful representation in whatever the new government will be.

With this kind of incentive for independents, this might inspire voters to investigate nuance more rather than it always be about a battle between two opposing sides.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Good eye! Irritation is good for those in power.

It gives them something to respond to rather than running away with their own utopian fantasies. Equally true for left or right. Power that eliminates those who irritate them is the power to be most opposed and feared.

I support those types of protests as they are first Amendment rights but think they have become a bit too common to be effective - being rare increased their shock value.

It depends on the echo chamber.


What's your view on Jill Stein? She barely gets press but she has the soundest and most sensible ideas from the lot. Might she make a dent or do people not see her seriously?

Think most regard her as a bit of a loon - about the only things that have broken through about her are questions on whether she believes in vaccines, "wifi causing damage to kids" and the pipeline protest.

Personally the fact she has never served in government and her policies seem to be just a wish list of typical green ideas without fleshing out of either how they would get implemented or how other challenges like immigration would be addressed make me highly skeptical of her. Imo Sanders was a much more effective left leaning candidate and McMullin is a much better independent candidate despite me probably disagreeing with him more on policy.

 

[abelard]

The two-party hegemony seems to be a natural state within major nation democracies. See UK & Germany with their respective Tory/Labour and CDU/SPD outfits dominating governmental politics for the last 70 years or so. It's a solid system which keeps the economy relatively stable while staying ahead of the competition.

right, but there's still at least the Lib Dems, Greens in Germany, Canada's NDP or even UKIP for that matter... at least the option exists. The UK duopoly is likely mostly down to first past the post. Are there any other developed countries with just two real parties? Japan maybe?

re Gary Johnson: you'd certainly have to be brainwashed to think basic awareness of the world's most pressing political, strategic and humanitarian crisis is required to be the most powerful person in the world! something about running away with utopian fantasies comes to mind

 

[dholliday]

I support those types of protests as they are first Amendment rights but think they have become a bit too common to be effective - being rare increased their shock value.

Think most regard her as a bit of a loon - about the only things that have broken through about her are questions on whether she believes in vaccines, "wifi causing damage to kids" and the pipeline protest.

Personally the fact she has never served in government and her policies seem to be just a wish list of typical green ideas without fleshing out of either how they would get implemented or how other challenges like immigration would be addressed make me highly skeptical of her. Imo Sanders was a much more effective left leaning candidate and McMullin is a much better independent candidate despite me probably disagreeing with him more on policy.

cheers for the feedback. lack of governmental experience, outlandish theories and hazy policies hasn't hindered Trump so I wouldn't hold that against Stein.

Speaking as a pacifist European what I like about Stein is that she makes similar noises about the awful military interventions in Arab lands as Ron Paul used to (and as Rand Paul still does albeit to a watered-down extent). And like Trump, she's also ready to work with Russia, not against them.

Regarding the wifi thing, this is in her own words:

Dr. Stein said in response to a question about wireless internet in schools: “We should not be subjecting kids’ brains especially to that… We don’t follow that issue in this country, but in Europe, where they do, they have good precautions around wireless, maybe not good enough.” What precautions should be taken around wireless internet and why?

What actually happened is that a parent raised concerns about the possible health effects of WiFi radiation on developing children, and I agreed that more research is needed. It may surprise many people that over 200 scientific experts in the field have called for more research into the health effects of radiation from devices like cellphones and WiFi, especially on developing children, and a number of countries have banned or restricted these technologies in schools. These concerns were amplified by a recent National Institutes of Health study that provided “some of the strongest evidence to date that such exposure [to the type of radiation emitted from cell phones and wireless devices] is associated with the formation of rare cancers…”

Scientists don’t know for sure if these technologies are safe for children, and as a doctor, I’d rather take precautions until the research is more conclusive. Protecting children’s health and respecting the scientific process is more important to me than giving simple, politically correct answers.


Does a concern about Wi-Fi affect the party’s call for free broadband internet?

No. We believe that access to information is a human right, and that includes access to broadband internet. As I’ve stated, I think we should listen to what scientific experts are saying and take precautions about how much we expose young children to WiFi and cellphones until we know more about the long-term health effects of this type of low-level radiation.

not as batshit crazy as some press have made it out to be.


Take away the controversy, right-leaning & pro-business of Trump, and you've got Jill Stein. Which is ideal, at least from my perspective.

 

[mezzrow]

McMullin is a much better independent candidate despite me probably disagreeing with him more on policy.

Gary Johnson: you'd certainly have to be brainwashed to think basic awareness of the world's most pressing political, strategic and humanitarian crisis is required to be the most powerful person in the world! something about running away with utopian fantasies comes to mind

McMullin is an effective candidate, and could win as a Republican nominee, but he'd never get that in a million years. Johnson is hardly perfect, but he would shrink the role of government in our lives, and looks like a saint compared to the major candidates.

Stopping Hillary is the prime directive, however. Doing so is as unlikely as the Cubs winning the World Series at this point.

 

[dholliday]

right, but there's still at least the Lib Dems, Greens in Germany, Canada's NDP or even UKIP for that matter... at least the option exists. The UK duopoly is likely mostly down to first past the post. Are there any other developed countries with just two real parties? Japan maybe?

re Gary Johnson: you'd certainly have to be brainwashed to think basic awareness of the world's most pressing political, strategic and humanitarian crisis is required to be the most powerful person in the world! something about running away with utopian fantasies comes to mind

Gary Johnson himself is a dud.

But the option is there to vote for them: Green Party, Libertarian and the like. If they had this incentive of a possible coalition government should they get enough votes it could grow these parties into something much more significant.

 

[TheFinnFan]

 

[USABlue]

The one thing i like about hiliary is she would make vaccines required if the child is healthy enough

 

[abelard]

Gary Johnson himself is a dud.

But the option is there to vote for them: Green Party, Libertarian and the like. If they had this incentive of a possible coalition government should they get enough votes it could grow these parties into something much more significant.

i think for a long time it was "mutually assured destruction" - neither party nor most of their voters could countenance any kind of deviation, as it would ensure that the other side won. politics in the US has been motivated far more by hostility to the other side than by anything positive or constructive, for some time now. but Trump might change this - it's very hard to see the Republicans putting the toothpaste back in the tube again, so to speak - they won't be able to just impose Jeb! ever again.

but if they break up, it would create much more space for democrats who have to hold their noses every four years to do the same

 

[LinekersLegs]

cheers for the feedback. lack of governmental experience, outlandish theories and hazy policies hasn't hindered Trump so I wouldn't hold that against Stein.

Speaking as a pacifist European what I like about Stein is that she makes similar noises about the awful military interventions in Arab lands as Ron Paul used to (and as Rand Paul still does albeit to a watered-down extent). And like Trump, she's also ready to work with Russia, not against them.

Regarding the wifi thing, this is in her own words:




not as batshit crazy as some press have made it out to be.


Take away the controversy, right-leaning & pro-business of Trump, and you've got Jill Stein. Which is ideal, at least from my perspective.

Those bits in bold would have me worried about Trump even if I liked his policies but agree they don't seem to have bothered a lot of his supporters.

Re the wifi thing that is why I put it in quotes, what she was intenting to convey and what was heard are two different things. But that is a problem for even the major party candidates, only supporters tend to spend the time to doublecheck the full context and details.

 

[LinekersLegs]

McMullin is an effective candidate, and could win as a Republican nominee, but he'd never get that in a million years. Johnson is hardly perfect, but he would shrink the role of government in our lives, and looks like a saint compared to the major candidates.

Stopping Hillary is the prime directive, however. Doing so is as unlikely as the Cubs winning the World Series at this point.

What is your guess on the electoral map Mezzrow?

Particularly interested on how you see Florida going, both presidential and senate?