Do we bottle the big games ?

[Ihaters]

Aye your right, our fans should be praised for not jumping the gun.

FA Cup disappointments in the last two seasons resulted in two massive memorable performances the following week with the 4-4 at OT and the 2-0 victory over City at Goodison.

Since Oviedo's leg break we've looked like a totally different side to the one before, Martinez needs a good performance out of his players on Saturday.

Definately, always seem to have one or two stand out performances, and one or two really poor displays, get back to 11 good performances and we will be looking boss again and everyone will be looking forward to games again.

 

[Khalekan]

We won that game because Fergy put out a B team to help Moyes win something and they should of had a pen but Moyes said about United and dodgy pens a few days earlier so it wasn't given, we beat them on pens then chocked at the final

Nonetheless we never "bottled" that game, giving lie to the preposterous statement that we have "bottled every big game since 1995".

 

[Khalekan]

I'd argue only the Chelsea away replay should be in that list. That United FA Cup Semi Final we nearly lost to Man Utd's reserve team.

I'm sorry.....I don't understand that post.

Are you saying we "bottled" the Anfield draw and the Gosling replay which resulted from it?

That they shouldn't be on a list of games that we haven't "bottled"?

 

[Allezfan]

Nonetheless we never "bottled" that game, giving lie to the preposterous statement that we have "bottled every big game since 1995".

We didn't play well.

If the argument is that we haven't played well in any big game since 1995, I can buy it.

We've played in 3 semis, 1 final, 1 end of season relegation decider and a 2 part play off for the CL since 1995 and played pretty badly in all of them.

 

[Khalekan]

Since Oviedo's leg break we've looked like a totally different side to the one before, Martinez needs a good performance out of his players on Saturday.

Oviedo's injury has been the biggest blow of any injury we have suffered this season, IMO

We looked a far better balanced team when he was playing at left back.

 

[Khalekan]

We didn't play well.

If the argument is that we haven't played well in any big game since 1995, I can buy it.

But the argument isn't that haven't "played well"........it is all about "bottling" big games.

That semi final was a crap match but we never "bottled it".......as evidenced by the fact we won a penalty shoot out.

And you don't win penalty shoot outs by lacking "bottle".

 

[GwladysBlue]

I'm sorry.....I don't understand that post.

Are you saying we "bottled" the Anfield draw and the Gosling replay which resulted from it?

That they shouldn't be on a list of games that we haven't "bottled"?

We drew at Anfield in an early round then beat them in the last minute of extra time when they had 10 men and had lost their best player to injury early on in the game. I'd hardly go screaming from the roof tops of how magnificent we were.

 

[Khalekan]

We drew at Anfield in an early round then beat them in the last minute of extra time when they had 10 men and had lost their best player to injury early on in the game. I'd hardly go screaming from the roof tops of how magnificent we were.

You know, you would look less foolish if you just said "yes....we showed plenty of bottle in those two games" instead of posting twaddle like that.

 

[GwladysBlue]

You know, you would look less foolish if you just said "yes....we showed plenty of bottle in those two games" instead of posting twaddle like that.

I see you have your opinion and it wont be changed. I'm sure if we had 10 men at Anfield and had just lost our best player you'd be using that as an excuse and how the other team were lucky in that respect.

Facts remain we don't win pressure games. By some miracle we get within touching distance of Arsenal by the time they come to Goodison, if that game had anything riding on it I'd bet everything I have that we wouldn't win. We have a losers mentality and have done for years.

 

[Khalekan]

points at GwladysBlue and lol

 

[Allezfan]

I see you have your opinion and it wont be changed. I'm sure if we had 10 men at Anfield and had just lost our best player you'd be using that as an excuse and how the other team were lucky in that respect.

Facts remain we don't win pressure games. By some miracle we get within touching distance of Arsenal by the time they come to Goodison, if that game had anything riding on it I'd bet everything I have that we wouldn't win. We have a losers mentality and have done for years.

The problem is you're defining pressure games as games we dodn't win.

Win QFs vs Boro at home, west ham away & sunderland away (not pressure games), lose QFs vs Wigan at home & Arsenal away (pressure games).

Beat Man Utd at home & Newcastle away to clinch 4th and CL football (not a pressure game), lose to Liverpool away to miss out on 4th and CL football (pressure game).

Beat Man Utd in a semi to reach a cup final (not a pressure game), lose to Liverpool and Chelsea in semis to not reach finals (pressure games).

Win in Europe to reach the next round vs Brann (not a pressure game), lose vs europe to not reach the next round vs Dinamo or Sporting (pressure games).

Draw vs Coventry to stay in the premier league and gain the tv riches that leads to (not a pressure game), lose vs Villarreal to not reach the CL group stages and gain the tv riches that leads to (pressure game).

When people start talking about our home game this year vs sunderland as a big game we bottled, you essentially can replace 'big game' with 'game we lost'. And ask 'do we lose the games we lose'? We do, by the way.

 

[GwladysBlue]

The problem is you're defining pressure games as games we dodn't win.

Win QFs vs Boro at home, west ham away & sunderland away (not pressure games), lose QFs vs Wigan at home & Arsenal away (pressure games).

Beat Man Utd at home & Newcastle away to clinch 4th and CL football (not a pressure game), lose to Liverpool away to miss out on 4th and CL football (pressure game).

Beat Man Utd in a semi to reach a cup final (not a pressure game), lose to Liverpool and Chelsea in semis to not reach finals (pressure games).

Win in Europe to reach the next round vs Brann (not a pressure game), lose vs europe to not reach the next round vs Dinamo or Sporting (pressure games).

Draw vs Coventry to stay in the premier league and gain the tv riches that leads to (not a pressure game), lose vs Villarreal to not reach the CL group stages and gain the tv riches that leads to (pressure game).

When people start talking about our home game this year vs sunderland as a big game we bottled, you essentially can replace 'big game' with 'game we lost'. And ask 'do we lose the games we lose'? We do, by the way.

I understand what you're saying, however in big games, ones when we are the form team and expected to win we seemingly never do. The Sunderland home game you point out had we won that we could very well had been going top of the league, it seemed typical of us to lose it.

Also the games you're marking as pressure games and saying replacing them with 'games we lost' we have been completely outplayed in the majority of them and not put in a performance worth noting.

 

[Khalekan]

That is very true, Allezfan.

The Sunderland game is a good case in point.

We lost that game but it was a monumental effort from our guys on the day....they certainly never "bottled" that game.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

We are bad bottlers. That semi final still haunts me.

 

[artetas_biggest_fan]

Some overly harsh comments. We are not really in a position to bottle big games as the majority of big games involve playing opponents who are favourites to win. Say we had beaten Arsenal and went on to play Wigan and lost..that would be bottling it.

Oddly enough you could argue that the two relegation games that we were favourites to win we more or less bottled (went 2-0 down to Wimbledon who had nothing to play for and also got a helping hand from Segers, drew 1-1 with Coventry and would have been toast had Bolton won).

Recently, can only really think of the cup semi against the RS...there wasn't a great deal between the teams but we froze in the 2nd half. We also bottled the home tie vs Villarreal. Being at home we were favourites and it had the entire previous seasons work riding on it and the chance to play in the Champions League with all the riches/status it entails.