Dithering Dave?

[davek]

Didn't Birmingham score in the 89th minute? How was a 90th minute sub protecting a lead?

Newcastle 1 down so didn't make a sub until 67 minute? Not chasing a point? 2nd sub just 2 mins before Spurs scored their 2nd goal. Good sub chasing a point cost a goal.

West Brom didn't make theirs until 66 min? Was that to keep the score to just 3-1?

Stoke 2-0 down after 10 mins but waited until 55 min to make a change?

Sunderland made 3 subs ? 1st defender for a defender. 2nd a 2 whole mins before "dithering Dave" and the 3rd 6 whole mins after. None effected the result.

Villa all the subs when they were already 4-0 down. Tactically aware.

So is "dithering Dave" worse than all those listed we got a point they only other one to get anything was Utd.

McLeish, Houllier and Pardew. You're not exactly helping your case there mate.

 

[Tubey]

I forgot you know why subs are made and be them for the right reason?

"Dithering Dave" brought the Yak on with 28 mins to go for the wrong reason. Went defensive!!

Newcastle why didn't Pardew go all out attack when they went down to 10 men?

West Brom & Stoke Yak subbed right in middle but just not good enough by "Dithering Dave"!!

Disingenuous but it was you who brought the stats into play so when they don't play the way you want they're disingenuous.

Why don't you just say Moyes out and stop making yourself look foolish.

I repeat what I said earlier you have stated before to know why the subs are made and at what time they should be made and even the reason the manager makes them. All I can say is you either be in the wrong job there will an be opening soon you should apply.

Way to ignore what I said - a continual habit on this forum.

The fact is, Moyes refused to make an attacking substitution to make an impact on the game (other than the traditional 60th minute change), when every other manager in the league would have done. You cannot defend Beckford and Bilyaletdinov being given a cameo of just a few minutes when we're chasing a game, unless you honestly believe the side on the pitch were showing enough ambition to win the game. I think you'd be foolish if you did believe that, but whatever.

And I think I upset people on here as I talk sense about Moyes rather than just yelling "Moyes Out!" mindlessly, so no, I won't resort to doing that cheers.

I actually come across those stats on another forum and simply posted them here - it is poignant that the simple posting of stats and a simple question constitutes an out of order attack on Moyes!

The newfound theory of "respect" around here has seemingly flown out the window it seems.

By the way, the word disingenuous means to use something in a deliberately insincere fashion to gain a benefit - you compared a 1st substitution to a 2nd and 3rd, that's all I meant. The stats I posted are what they are.

You REALLY WON'T LET THIS LIE , eh , Bright-Spark ...???

It's a discussion point; there's nothing wrong with this thread. Simple question really - was the decision by David Moyes to delay using his remaining two substitutions until injury time tactically naive or the actions of a man convinced any change he could make wouldn't benefit the team?

Nobody has actually answered the bloody question yet ^^

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

why are you called Tubey?

 

[Tubey]

why are you called Tubey?

Weird question ^^ It's a polystyrene tube I found when I moved into a bedsit when at university; fiance gave it the name "Tubey", and it was so random that I use it as a username on forums as nobody usually has it.

Of course, it gives the impression I'm a fat [Poor language removed] and people call me "Tubby".

 

[ChicagoToffee]

Clockwork. Moyes makes his first sub at 60 minutes.

Baffling when it is obvious from the first half that there needs to be a change somewhere, Moyes trots out the same 11 and makes his first sub at the 60 minute mark. Almost laughable in its predictability.

Time of Moyes 1st substitution in the last 10 matches:

West Ham - 62nd minute
Citeh - 75th minute
Wigan - 61st minute
Chelsea - 58th minute
West Brom - 55th minute
Sunderland - 66th minute
Arsenal - HT (Rodwell in for Heitinga - injury?), second was 69th minute
Bolton - 67th minute
Blackpool - 61st minute
Stoke - 61st minute

If you're on the Everton bench, you really don't need to be bothered with breaking a sweat until the 55th minute.

 

[little curly alan ball]

Way to ignore what I said - a continual habit on this forum.

The fact is, Moyes refused to make an attacking substitution to make an impact on the game (other than the traditional 60th minute change), when every other manager in the league would have done. You cannot defend Beckford and Bilyaletdinov being given a cameo of just a few minutes when we're chasing a game, unless you honestly believe the side on the pitch were showing enough ambition to win the game. I think you'd be foolish if you did believe that, but whatever.

And I think I upset people on here as I talk sense about Moyes rather than just yelling "Moyes Out!" mindlessly, so no, I won't resort to doing that cheers.

I actually come across those stats on another forum and simply posted them here - it is poignant that the simple posting of stats and a simple question constitutes an out of order attack on Moyes!

The newfound theory of "respect" around here has seemingly flown out the window it seems.

By the way, the word disingenuous means to use something in a deliberately insincere fashion to gain a benefit - you compared a 1st substitution to a 2nd and 3rd, that's all I meant. The stats I posted are what they are.



It's a discussion point; there's nothing wrong with this thread. Simple question really - was the decision by David Moyes to delay using his remaining two substitutions until injury time tactically naive or the actions of a man convinced any change he could make wouldn't benefit the team?

Nobody has actually answered the bloody question yet ^^

I'm not even gonna bother to try . I don't think your arsed about answers . Its your Agenda you REALLY dig .

Pardew / Houllier ..???

Shakes head ,.. Closes door behind self ,...

 

[little curly alan ball]

Weird question ^^ It's a polystyrene tube I found when I moved into a bedsit when at university; fiance gave it the name "Tubey", and it was so random that I use it as a username on forums as nobody usually has it.

Of course, it gives the impression I'm a fat [Poor language removed] and people call me "Tubby".

We kinda DIG Fat Bastards .

Ask Goat ....

 

[Tubey]

We kinda DIG Fat Bastards .

Ask Goat ....

I don't know if the word "dig" in the above usage is good or bad ^^ I'm not that fat anyway!!!

Of course my agenda is "I don't want Moyes as manager of Everton anymore". Clear as a bell! But similarly, your agenda is "I want Moyes as manager of Everton" and similarly you're not arsed about the contrary opinion. It's a discussion, tis all.

It wasn't me that mentioned Pardew and Houllier by the way (I'd have Moyes ahead of both of them overall in a flash), so I'm a bit confused by you mentioning that.

 

[little curly alan ball]

I don't know if the word "dig" in the above usage is good or bad ^^ I'm not that fat anyway!!!

Of course my agenda is "I don't want Moyes as manager of Everton anymore". Clear as a bell! But similarly, your agenda is "I want Moyes as manager of Everton" and similarly you're not arsed about the contrary opinion. It's a discussion, tis all.

It wasn't me that mentioned Pardew and Houllier by the way (I'd have Moyes ahead of both of them overall in a flash), so I'm a bit confused by you mentioning that.

No , kid .

MY Agenda is ; I GET he's made mistakes , but he walks , WE ARE FUKD . Jags , Bainsey , Screech ., Rodders ,, Seamus , ALL WEST .

THAT is me point . In truth ; I BELIEVE YOU TO BE CLINICALLY INSANE , my mate . But takes all sorts , eh ???

 

[little curly alan ball]

I don't know if the word "dig" in the above usage is good or bad ^^ I'm not that fat anyway!!!

Of course my agenda is "I don't want Moyes as manager of Everton anymore". Clear as a bell! But similarly, your agenda is "I want Moyes as manager of Everton" and similarly you're not arsed about the contrary opinion. It's a discussion, tis all.

It wasn't me that mentioned Pardew and Houllier by the way (I'd have Moyes ahead of both of them overall in a flash), so I'm a bit confused by you mentioning that.

Dig = Like .

 

[Tubey]

No , kid .

MY Agenda is ; I GET he's made mistakes , but he walks , WE ARE FUKD . Jags , Bainsey , Screech ., Rodders ,, Seamus , ALL WEST .

THAT is me point . In truth ; I BELIEVE YOU TO BE CLINICALLY INSANE , my mate . But takes all sorts , eh ???

Fair enough. I'm actually simply in fear for the direction the club is taking, because footballers are human. You're talking about all those players walking if Moyes does - they'll walk if we continue to stagnate and grind out draws against West Ham mate.

We're losing Pienaar due to a lack of ambition, we've managed to hold on to Arteta which is a miracle in my books... we have the best team in a generation for Evertonians based on what Moyes achieved up until two years ago, but he's suddenly stuck in the mud. All our top players (especially the young 'uns) will want progress, not a mid-table calamity based on team selections featuring four strikers on the bench and a 4-6-0 formation!

I can't back the man as he's not doing the business. I'm not kneejerking either; there's a lot of people who feel the same way. I back the club 100% and every player; I can't back a manager who is walking and talking like a man who knows he's got the clubs balls in a vice grip as we can't afford to lose him.

But this topic isn't necessarily about "Moyes Out!" - I'm actually asking whether there's a legitimate reason why Moyes, away from home against a terrible West Ham, waited until the 90th minute and beyond to use his two remaining subs when we're chasing a win against a side doomed to a relegation battle and who didn't have a shot on target all game, because I'm genuinely baffled by Moyes.

If anyone has a reason then this thread is an "answers on a postcard" kind of thing.

Dig = Like .

Ahh right. ^^

 

[heatmeiser]

Maybe he - having the luxury of watching them perform all week in training - has realised that Yak, Saha and Beckford are actually all a touch on the crap side and, rather than put off potential new year suitors by parading their crapness for all to see, is letting them warm the bench and their agents get to work doing the dirty.

One of Saha and Yak will surely be gone this January. I just can't imagine who is going to be replacing them.

 

[Tubey]

Maybe he - having the luxury of watching them perform all week in training - has realised that Yak, Saha and Beckford are actually all a touch on the crap side and, rather than put off potential new year suitors by parading their crapness for all to see, is letting them warm the bench and their agents get to work doing the dirty.

One of Saha and Yak will surely be gone this January. I just can't imagine who is going to be replacing them.

If that's the case, they shouldn't even be on the bench. Why not have Gueye and co. from the rezzies given a spot on the bench to get used to the matchday experience and maybe get a few minutes on the pitch?

I don't think that Yakubu and Saha have deteriorated so badly. Yak was on fire against Liverpool, for example. I just think they're completely bereft of confidence because Moyes insists on playing them up front alone. He's allergic to the term "strike partnership". Similarly, if the months upon months of scouting Jermaine Beckford has been utterly useless, then Moyes takes responsibility for signing a [Poor language removed] player - I don't believe he is [Poor language removed]. I simply believe Moyes isn't using his squad assets properly and hasn't been for the last two years.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

HOW'Z THAT!!!!!!!

Have to say lad.

You've just spanked this thread like England (& Wales) did the Convicts in Australia.

FACT IS Robbo's pulled your pants down quoting stats back at you.

Sad person indeed!

You REALLY WON'T LET THIS LIE , eh , Bright-Spark ...???

What's that all about lads? Hardly constructive. I'd expect better. Exactly the kind of reason this forum is at risk of falling into the abyss. Someone presents an opinion, backed up with some thought, and you have silly, ridiculous replies aimed purely to antagonise and belittle another Evertonian. Have a word.

My only criticism of the thread would be that it's a duplicate. It's interesting to see the path this thread has took. Bizarre really. Unanimous amongst the fan base that Moyes' isn't instinctive with his substitutions and that’s an under statement, and more often than not, he's fairly clueless when it comes to having to make a change. Epitomised by his bizarre changes. 9/10, his changes are forced/blatantly obvious. He used to be much more prone to taking the initiative. If something wasn't right, he'd be all over it. That seems to have gone.

But, this is widely agreed. We know Moyes is reluctant to make any change during a game. I think it's a mixture of resources, or lack of, his own ability of being able to see a game unfold and stubbornness. I think you'd be hard pushed to find a manager in world football who has made less subs than him at half time. That’s Moyes. He has his strengths and weaknesses like any other manager. A weakness is certainly his inability to change a game during play.

This, very few would argue with. Even in the carbon copy of this thread here fans bemoaned, as they did everywhere, about the inept, bizarre subs. This thread has taken a different route. Why? Tubey tends to only post criticism towards Moyes. People instinctively take a dislike to someone who seems to have an agenda. Nobody likes someone who constantly picks floors in someone. My advice Tubey – Moyes isn’t the only discussion point.

 

[Tubey]

My advice Tubey – Moyes isn’t the only discussion point.

If we were going to put up a 2nd statue...

Alex Young is an excellent shout and there'd be no argument from me there.

Personally, I'd have one of Labone - a career Evertonian, local lad, embodied the club completely.

Transfer Rumour: Oriol...

Would make more sense to bring in a domestic short term loan, a la Gardner, just to cover. Someone who has experience of the league - not a very fresh faced Spaniard who'd need a good six months to settle in England.

Arteta...

He needs dropping, put bluntly. Right now he's not hungry because he knows he's guaranteed a first team place.

I'd have him dropped for a couple of games, revert to 4-4-2. Why break up the Fellaini/Rodwell partnership in the middle when Cahill goes off in January, just to accomodate a half-asleep Arteta?

And they're all just today mate. ^^

Thing is, people jump down my throat whenever I mention the word "Moyes", yet when I post on other things they go largely unnoticed.

It's like if Jordan made a piece of toast in the morning, the paparazzi wouldn't care. If she then goes out to pick up the milk from the doorstep and her top falls down, now that's news!