Dissent against Moyes, when?

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Why are you separating Kenwright from this when it was central to the original assertion? Under his stewardship we've been left behind by half a dozen clubs who are so far ahead now in terms of spending and infrastructure and business models they may as well be in another league. And at the risk of repeating myself again, Moyes has managed that drift by backing the owner(s) up and dumbing down expectations of real success. He gets 6th/7th place as opposed to 14th/15th place? Sound. Enjoy the achievement, such as it is.

Moyes has done what he's employed to do, manage Everton Football Club & he's done a fine job of it, given the resources at his disposal.

Your main beef with him, appears to be that he's not come out & bitched about his gaffer, well pardon me if I don't share your view, that this is in some way is a character flaw. I suppose you'll claim that his wage packet is his 'hush money', which is laughable - as he's paid what he's worth in th PL market place.

People like you assume that we'd have somehow kept pace with the benefactor owned clubs, plus the likes of Man United & the ****e - if it had not been for Kenwright. It's cloud cuckoo land delusion imo. Yes Kenwright has done little to improve the long term future of the club & his time was up years back, but to make out that anyone other than a benefactor prepared to spunk hundreds of £M's on EFC, would have been able to keep pace with the afore mentioned clubs, by running the club organically is total bollocks imho.

You've not acheived your aim post Kirkby of seeing off Kenwright, so you've now turned on Moyes, as you consider him to be his prop. Which if you're honest about it , means that you're pissed off that we keep doing well in the PL, as a poor run of results might see opinion change. So now you're trying to convince Evetonians that Moyes is part of the 'axis of evil' which I consider to be tragic & devisive.

 

[davek]

That managed decline stuff has seen a few dummies getting thrown out of prams.

Noted.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

That Tottenham game. And if that wasn't enough last year at Arsenal away topped it off for me.

 

[bourneblue]

This thread reads like a who's who of the hard c by.

Why not organise a notes out march,if ad you claim would have massive support.

 

[steken1]

Moyes has done what he's employed to do, manage Everton Football Club & he's done a fine job of it, given the resources at his disposal.

Your main beef with him, appears to be that he's not come out & bitched about his gaffer, well pardon me if I don't share your view, that this is in some way is a character flaw. I suppose you'll claim that his wage packet is his 'hush money', which is laughable - as he's paid what he's worth in th PL market place.

People like you assume that we'd have somehow kept pace with the benefactor owned clubs, plus the likes of Man United & the ****e - if it had not been for Kenwright. It's cloud cuckoo land delusion imo. Yes Kenwright has done little to improve the long term future of the club & his time was up years back, but to make out that anyone other than a benefactor prepared to spunk hundreds of £M's on EFC, would have been able to keep pace with the afore mentioned clubs, by running the club organically is total bollocks imho.

You've not acheived your aim post Kirkby of seeing off Kenwright, so you've now turned on Moyes, as you consider him to be his prop. Which if you're honest about it , means that you're pissed off that we keep doing well in the PL, as a poor run of results might see opinion change. So now you're trying to convince Evetonians that Moyes is part of the 'axis of evil' which I consider to be tragic & devisive.

Arsenal.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Arsenal.

If you think that we could match Arsenals match day revenue even with a 60K arena, then you're deluded mate.

Unless that is, you're advocating ticket prices doubling?

btw what's Arsenals net spend in the transfer market under Wenger mate? Do they not follow a policy of bringing on young talent & then selling them on to fund their transfer dealings?

 

[steken1]

"People like you assume that we'd have somehow kept pace with the benefactor owned clubs, plus the likes of Man United & the ****e - if it had not been for Kenwright. It's cloud cuckoo land delusion imo."

Arsenal have largely done it. We have a manager with almost as good an eye for a player who is also nearing a negative net spend over the course of his reign. While they have built a new ground and training centre we have sold ours.

We could have been so much more than what we are now had somebody with vision and resources been at the helm. Everybody moved with the times and at the outset of Bill's reign there weren't a massive difference between the two clubs. We never and now we will pay the price for however long he remains.

It's decline whichever way you want to sell it.

I'm not soft nobody is ever going to publicly slate their chairman time and again and I wouldn't expect Moyes to. But, there's not many managers who will publicly attack a large section of thier own fan base when that same section of fans are moaning about the same things he's been crying about for years. He didn't have to say anything. Anybody who's seen him in a press conference will know what happens if he doesn't like a question or doesn't want to answer.

and there's not many who after 2 1/2yrs of no dough would be in the press talking about his chairman in glowing terms stating he wouldn't want anybody else. That's why some say you cant separate Moyes and Kenwright. They are a pair in every sense of our operation.

 

[gheesom]

Does this mean in '87, no one ever once got annoyed with a single decision made by Kendall? not one?

 

[Summerskin]

Does this mean in '87, no one ever once got annoyed with a single decision made by Kendall? not one?

HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT ABOUT KENDALL THE MAN IS A LIVING LEGEND HE PERSONIFED EVERYTHING THIS CLUB WAS ABOUT IF IT WASNT FOR HEYSEL WED BE WHERE MAN UTD ARE NOW ITS A JOKE REALLY, AGENDA FILLED BILE.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

"People like you assume that we'd have somehow kept pace with the benefactor owned clubs, plus the likes of Man United & the ****e - if it had not been for Kenwright. It's cloud cuckoo land delusion imo."

Arsenal have largely done it. We have a manager with almost as good an eye for a player who is also nearing a negative net spend over the course of his reign. While they have built a new ground and training centre we have sold ours.

We could have been so much more than what we are now had somebody with vision and resources been at the helm. Everybody moved with the times and at the outset of Bill's reign there weren't a massive difference between the two clubs. We never and now we will pay the price for however long he remains.

It's decline whichever way you want to sell it.

I'm not soft nobody is ever going to publicly slate their chairman time and again and I wouldn't expect Moyes to. But, there's not many managers who will publicly attack a large section of thier own fan base when that same section of fans are moaning about the same things he's been crying about for years. He didn't have to say anything. Anybody who's seen him in a press conference will know what happens if he doesn't like a question or doesn't want to answer.

and there's not many who after 2 1/2yrs of no dough would be in the press talking about his chairman in glowing terms stating he wouldn't want anybody else. That's why some say you cant separate Moyes and Kenwright. They are a pair in every sense of our operation.

Arsenal have done a great job, there's no denying it. They're the best model for any football club looking to build organically. However, it's a fairly easy business decision to build a new 60K ground (assuming the numbers add up) when you know that you've got 20 thousand plus punters waiting & willing to pay the exorbitant ticket prices at the new stadium. Eveton do not have that luxury & never have had, so to compare the 2 clubs & say they were on a par pre-Kenwright isn't accurate.

As for Moyes, you've merely cemented what I said there, as you're blaming him for not singing from the same hymn sheet as you & not being complimentary about the aims of a fans group marching minutes before a home game. He's entitled to his opinion, same as you are. Your issue is that you don't like that opinion, end of.

 

[steken1]

Arsenal have done a great job, there's no denying it. They're the best model for any football club looking to build organically. However, it's a fairly easy business decision to build a new 60K ground (assuming the numbers add up) when you know that you've got 20 thousand plus punters waiting & willing to pay the exorbitant ticket prices at the new stadium. Eveton do not have that luxury & never have had, so to compare the 2 clubs & say they were on a par pre-Kenwright isn't accurate.

As for Moyes, you've merely cemented what I said there, as you're blaming him for not singing from the same hymn sheet as you & not being complimentary about the aims of a fans group marching minutes before a home game. He's entitled to his opinion, same as you are. Your issue is that you don't like that opinion, end of.

No mate that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that the group of fans tagline is "oppose stagnation". Moyes has spent the best part of three years up to last jan maoning about the same thing. I'd have been quite happy for him to say nothing.

Ask yourself why Arsenal had 20,000 waiting for tickets? All attendances have been growing through the PL era. We are one of the few who have done nothing to capitalise on it. Standing still is going backwards when everybody else is moving forwards.

If you can't see my point,which your more than welcome to disagree with, then were wasting our time debating whether we have seen decline or not.