Discussion & help on depression & mental health related issues


Just thought I'd share the link to the PHQ-9. As you quite rightly said, It's an interesting test but it's clearly not infallible.

Although i'm fairly stressed with the wedding and the business at the moment, I got a score of 15/27 which would place me in the 'Moderately Severe Depression' category.

Which only highlights the hazards of trying to self diagnose using tools that should be administered by trained professionals! I suppose the link doesn’t explain that some questions are weighted more than others and that a holistic determination around prevailing “functionality” should be used to put the results in context?
 
Appreciate the comments. However, I’d argue at the time I didn’t see any way of “fixing” my problems either. If we use weight as one example, you feel anxious about your appearance, being judged by others, photographs, seeing people you know. It doesn’t take “insight” to realise that there is a linkage between weight and those anxieties. The pragmatism to see light at the end of the tunnel and put those thoughts into practice is a different matter altogether, of course.

In my experience, I’ve known many people diagnosed with various types of depression and most, if not all, are well aware of their problems and what causes them. Some appeared not to have the courage (and I say that with trepidation as it takes a great deal of courage to put your hand up and say "I need a hand" too!) or even just the energy / enthusiasm / will to confront those problems and attempt to overcome them. The oversimplification, which I try to avoid, is that if you feel naff about how you look, you can get to the gym and work hard and stop eating crap, or you can claim an illness is the cause (absolving personal responsibility) and take some pills that will get you from A to B for a while.



This is interesting, my understanding is that's the medical industry differentiates between clinical depression and situational depression and it's the diagnosis and prognosis of the latter I'm focusing on more I guess (without downplaying the significance of the other). I appreciate there's varying theories as with anything, but my understanding is that those with clinical depression are either genetically predisposed to suffer or experience a sudden bout due to irregular hormonal changes in the body during puberty / adolescence / menopause. Long term substance abusers naturally suffer too, due to the sustained chemical impact on the brain (which is why I've somewhat less sympathy for my mate I mentioned earlier - he doesn't help himself)

Situational depression is, as it sounds, prompted often by a life event or sudden shock. Again, i'll use weight as that was what affected me. Let's say a perfectly healthy person has a fall and breaks both legs, can't walk for 6 months and gains 5 stone. They'd suffer many of the symptoms I did (Anxiety, Irritability, Agoraphobia, Fatigue, Low Self-Esteem) and could very easily be diagnosed if they so wish.



Really interesting, thanks. I'll look into this.

It might be worth starting another thread for this mate, I understand what you're trying to say but it's also sounding a bit patronising and I'd hate for it to have a negative effect on anyone thinking about posting.

I appreciate that's not your aim but I just don't think it's the thread for it, who knows, maybe I'm in the wrong, it happens daily on here so y'know there is that.
 
It might be worth starting another thread for this mate, I understand what you're trying to say but it's also sounding a bit patronising and I'd hate for it to have a negative effect on anyone thinking about posting.

I appreciate that's not your aim but I just don't think it's the thread for it, who knows, maybe I'm in the wrong, it happens daily on here so y'know there is that.

Fair comment. Apologies if anyone has felt that way. The aim was more to start a dialogue around diagnosis and people's experiences. Happy to leave it there.
 

Just thought I'd share the link to the PHQ-9. As you quite rightly said, It's an interesting test but it's clearly not infallible.

Although i'm fairly stressed with the wedding and the business at the moment, I got a score of 15/27 which would place me in the 'Moderately Severe Depression' category.
Thats scary, makes me depressed i think without actually filling it in i will do tomorrow though n check my score

Is this fool proof? Because ive never once thought i was “depressed” tbh but little things like cant focus on tv or newspaper i put that down to being addicted to my phone not being depressed
 
Thats scary, makes me depressed i think without actually filling it in i will do tomorrow though n check my score

Is this fool proof? Because ive never once thought i was “depressed” tbh but little things like cant focus on tv or newspaper i put that down to being addicted to my phone not being depressed

No mate, nothing is infallible! The questionnaire isn’t a perfect diagnostic tool. It’s primary functions are to screen for possible depression and to monitor if symptoms improve or decline during time by observing increase or decrease in score.

Depression suspected only if you answer more than half days/nearly every day for at least one of the 2 first questions plus your overall symptoms are so bad they significantly interfere with your functionality (eg substantially and consistently affect you at work or in your ability to undertake activities you’d normally not have difficulty undertaking if you put your attention and mind to it!). The latter criterion isn’t usually included as a scored question in the form but would be an area that a practitioner who knows what she/he is doing would explore with you.

Used properly in this way the form has a high specificity (meaning few false positives, meaning used properly it should rarely suggest depression present in someone who doesn’t actually have depression). On the other hand, and this will surprise those who’ve looked at it and freaked out, the form has a relatively low sensitivity (meaning about one third of people who actually have depression will be missed using the form in isolation).

Goes back to my earlier comment that you mustn’t rely on using what looks like a pretty straightforward medical tool to self-diagnose because it’s fraught with hazards!
 
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Deep breath... and begin.

As far back as I can remember (i'm talking early teenage years) I've been prone to black periods, I don't cope well with stress and when I get anxious don't deal well with problems. It's a known issue.

Back in 2017 I separated with my wife, then a month later I crashed on my bike and broke my pelvis in three places. Two weeks in hospital, 3 weeks in a hospital bed in the kitchen of the girl I had just started seeing ( I had nowhere else to go and couldn't do anything for myself). All of this wasn't so bad. Two months off work was a bit dull but I got through ok, I'm still together with that girl too.

However, from there, things started to get worse and worse. I had a new boss at work who was determined I wasn't his guy and started by turns ignoring me and finding ways to make problems for me. By May he was advertising my job with one word changed in the job title. My Ex decided, after I spent 6 months paying her about 50% of my salary in an informal arrangement to ease her transition to a different life (no kids) decided that wasn't enough and went to court for a regular amount for 3 years. She just binned all my mail, causing me huge financial problems with hospital bills for the pelvis and such. The stress of that and my work situation led me to have a kind of breakdown in August and be signed off work for 8 Weeks. By September I was fired.

Sitting at home every day, with bailiffs coming round writing down everything you own (not much!), selling stuff to get to the end of every month with your confidence destroyed by losing a 15 year career is soul destroying. I started writing again to scrape a little bit together with free lancing but I was in a really dark place. It felt like I had been left with nothing and everybody still wanted more. I lost all will to do anything, I think I was suicidal in that I just wanted to disappear.

The writing and some of the experiences I had doing it pulled me out of it a bit but in the end, it's impossible to make a living in a click-bait world writing intelligently about niche sport. I had to go back to the office last month and the only part of the experience I was looking forward to was getting a decent pay cheque and not struggling every month.

Anyway, yesterday I got word that the publication I regard as the best in my field doesn't wnat to work with me anymore and today, thanks to Belgium's weird way of deducting your annual holiday pay and then paying it you back a year later... My first wage was less than 50% of what I was expecting. They had to subsidise it so I made minimum this month. I can't pay my bills with that amount. In short, I just spent the last 20 minutes hiding in the toilet of my new job crying my eyes out. I can feel myself slipping back into that place of stress and anxiety every day that always leads me back to depression.

Sorry for the epic, but I've never set it all out like that before and doing it anonymously feels safer for me.
 
Deep breath... and begin.

As far back as I can remember (i'm talking early teenage years) I've been prone to black periods, I don't cope well with stress and when I get anxious don't deal well with problems. It's a known issue.

Back in 2017 I separated with my wife, then a month later I crashed on my bike and broke my pelvis in three places. Two weeks in hospital, 3 weeks in a hospital bed in the kitchen of the girl I had just started seeing ( I had nowhere else to go and couldn't do anything for myself). All of this wasn't so bad. Two months off work was a bit dull but I got through ok, I'm still together with that girl too.

However, from there, things started to get worse and worse. I had a new boss at work who was determined I wasn't his guy and started by turns ignoring me and finding ways to make problems for me. By May he was advertising my job with one word changed in the job title. My Ex decided, after I spent 6 months paying her about 50% of my salary in an informal arrangement to ease her transition to a different life (no kids) decided that wasn't enough and went to court for a regular amount for 3 years. She just binned all my mail, causing me huge financial problems with hospital bills for the pelvis and such. The stress of that and my work situation led me to have a kind of breakdown in August and be signed off work for 8 Weeks. By September I was fired.

Sitting at home every day, with bailiffs coming round writing down everything you own (not much!), selling stuff to get to the end of every month with your confidence destroyed by losing a 15 year career is soul destroying. I started writing again to scrape a little bit together with free lancing but I was in a really dark place. It felt like I had been left with nothing and everybody still wanted more. I lost all will to do anything, I think I was suicidal in that I just wanted to disappear.

The writing and some of the experiences I had doing it pulled me out of it a bit but in the end, it's impossible to make a living in a click-bait world writing intelligently about niche sport. I had to go back to the office last month and the only part of the experience I was looking forward to was getting a decent pay cheque and not struggling every month.

Anyway, yesterday I got word that the publication I regard as the best in my field doesn't wnat to work with me anymore and today, thanks to Belgium's weird way of deducting your annual holiday pay and then paying it you back a year later... My first wage was less than 50% of what I was expecting. They had to subsidise it so I made minimum this month. I can't pay my bills with that amount. In short, I just spent the last 20 minutes hiding in the toilet of my new job crying my eyes out. I can feel myself slipping back into that place of stress and anxiety every day that always leads me back to depression.

Sorry for the epic, but I've never set it all out like that before and doing it anonymously feels safer for me.

I take it you’re still in Belgium mate ?

There’s a regular on here from Belgium @Armel who is very good with Belgium legal and employment stuff.

He may be able to give you some good practical advice.
 
Deep breath... and begin.

As far back as I can remember (i'm talking early teenage years) I've been prone to black periods, I don't cope well with stress and when I get anxious don't deal well with problems. It's a known issue.

Back in 2017 I separated with my wife, then a month later I crashed on my bike and broke my pelvis in three places. Two weeks in hospital, 3 weeks in a hospital bed in the kitchen of the girl I had just started seeing ( I had nowhere else to go and couldn't do anything for myself). All of this wasn't so bad. Two months off work was a bit dull but I got through ok, I'm still together with that girl too.

However, from there, things started to get worse and worse. I had a new boss at work who was determined I wasn't his guy and started by turns ignoring me and finding ways to make problems for me. By May he was advertising my job with one word changed in the job title. My Ex decided, after I spent 6 months paying her about 50% of my salary in an informal arrangement to ease her transition to a different life (no kids) decided that wasn't enough and went to court for a regular amount for 3 years. She just binned all my mail, causing me huge financial problems with hospital bills for the pelvis and such. The stress of that and my work situation led me to have a kind of breakdown in August and be signed off work for 8 Weeks. By September I was fired.

Sitting at home every day, with bailiffs coming round writing down everything you own (not much!), selling stuff to get to the end of every month with your confidence destroyed by losing a 15 year career is soul destroying. I started writing again to scrape a little bit together with free lancing but I was in a really dark place. It felt like I had been left with nothing and everybody still wanted more. I lost all will to do anything, I think I was suicidal in that I just wanted to disappear.

The writing and some of the experiences I had doing it pulled me out of it a bit but in the end, it's impossible to make a living in a click-bait world writing intelligently about niche sport. I had to go back to the office last month and the only part of the experience I was looking forward to was getting a decent pay cheque and not struggling every month.

Anyway, yesterday I got word that the publication I regard as the best in my field doesn't wnat to work with me anymore and today, thanks to Belgium's weird way of deducting your annual holiday pay and then paying it you back a year later... My first wage was less than 50% of what I was expecting. They had to subsidise it so I made minimum this month. I can't pay my bills with that amount. In short, I just spent the last 20 minutes hiding in the toilet of my new job crying my eyes out. I can feel myself slipping back into that place of stress and anxiety every day that always leads me back to depression.

Sorry for the epic, but I've never set it all out like that before and doing it anonymously feels safer for me.
You say you were signed off work in August was that medically signed off? And then got fired in September what was the reason for getting fired?
 
You say you were signed off work in August was that medically signed off? And then got fired in September what was the reason for getting fired?

My sick note was a day late owing to me being unable to get out of bed. Over here you have to provide the doctors note within 24 hours. Basically, I gave them an excuse. They sent their own doctor to my house to see if I was at it and he agreed that I was unable to work. TBF, they recognized they were on shaky ground and gave me 3 months salary at the same time. They did, however, try to scupper my application for unemployment benefits SIX MONTHS later, saying I got myself fired. I had to go for interviews and that caused me a whole load of stress as well, luckily they sided with me.
 
I hope this doesn’t sound insensitive because it’s a genuine question that i’ve wondered for some time, it’s certainly not intended to come across as patronising or hurtful in any way. What is the point where feeling sad, anxious, stressed or disinterested becomes “I have depression”?

A few years ago at 25 after losing my job, I decided to try and build an online business. I had no savings, no working capital, I sofa surfed and relied on generosity from my family for the best part of 2 years. My weight ballooned from about 13st to 19st, my girlfriend of 6 years left me and my health really suffered.

During that time, as you’d expect I had bouts of loneliness, anxiety, stress and hopelessness over the last few years and without getting into a p’~^*•g contest with anyone, it got to the point where i didn’t want to go out, attend social situations etc.

During that time, I could have very easily been diagnosed with depression. For some people, I can totally understand how diagnosis and medications helps them reach some semblance of normality and gets them through the day. However, it seems to be becoming much more common recently, and my own personal experience with Doctors is that they are too eager to suggest anti-depressants as a solution to life’s many problems and challenges

For me, a sustained lack of exercise and poor diet will make anyone feel low. I believed (whether rightly or wrongly) that being overweight, having no money and feeling utterly worthless wasn’t a good enough reason, at least not in my head, to seek help. Nobody could give me the help I truly required. That could only come from me.

If I wanted to feel better, I knew the solution was to eat less junk, start exercising again, find a way to make some cash (whether that be a new job or working harder to make my business work) and find some meaning in life again, none of that was going to be overnight or easy.

And this is the great thing about this thread in particular, it struck me a long time ago that these are very typical emotions and challenges that everyone faces at some point in life to varying degrees, often during our younger years when the world seems it’s most daunting. It’s great to see so many people sharing and the positivity that this elicits.

I’m almost 30 now, I have a moderately successful, growing business and I get married next Saturday. Everything isn’t peachy but it’s better. Incidentally, my fiancee was on Sertraline when we very first met as she struggled with losing her job and the break up of her parents marriage. She used to say that the tablets “helped her get through the day”. I can understand this, but it’s okay not to be okay about that. We talked and I suggested why she would want to take pills to feel okay about things that are perfectly reasonable and normal to feel down about. At her own pace, she weaned herself off and quickly returned to a much better place. Though again, life is still not perfect and rarely is.

It’s something i’ve been thinking about a lot recently as one of the lads I play Football with has signed off work as he gets used to the well-documented side effects of Prozac. His doctor prescribed him this after he complained of panic attacks, anxiety and insomnia. However he also drinks a lot, takes Cocaine and smokes a lot of Weed. I’ve suggested to him that laying off the other stuff first would improve his life no end. Perhaps to the point where he wouldn’t need the prozac and could go to work. To me that makes perfect sense but I understand it’s not always that cut and dry for everyone. In both a physical and mental sense, taking all of that stuff is a recipe for disaster.

My Nan used to say that life is all about “making it through as best you can, in your own way” and “finding happiness in the simplest things” and for those that are diagnosed and take medication, I wish you only the best in finding happiness and contentment in your life. There is no judgement from me as every case is entirely different. This isn’t about strength or weakness either, I just wanted to get some feedback from others on where the line is drawn for them.

I guess I’ve answered my own question in that the line is drawn differently for everyone. I contemplated deleting this post but it was a pretty cathartic experience typing it all up, I hope nobody is insulted by any insinuations i’ve made as that’s absolutely not my intention.


Very thought-provoking post. I was in a similar bind 20 years ago and I absolutely vouch for a sensible diet and regular exercise as an essential tool in fighting back and making a recovery during challenging times.

I certainly think that medication is a crucially necessary complement to treatment for depression and other mental health issues, I guess the issue is over-prescribing.

Modern life is complex and demanding, and becoming increasingly so. With respect to our elders, I don't think that by and large my parents generation faced the same pressures and difficulties in getting a stable and decently paying job, buying a home, and finding a partner. I'm frightened by the ever-growing focus on the individual fostered by government policy, globalisation, and social media at the expense of family and community. Everyone seems to be in competition with everyone else.

I'm single now, in my mid 40s and I don't like it. I'll admit to being lonely and melancholy a lot of the time, with no time to breathe during the week due to the nature of my work but too much time alone at weekends. I don't want to use Tinder or anything like that either, I am a human being not something from a furniture catalogue.

It shouldn't come as any surprise that people are thus experiencing very real and very challenging mental health issues in this type of climate, and its absolutely great now that people are feeling more liberated to talk about it, long may it continue.

I do think though, and only in the cases where it occurs, prescription medication is just another way of dealing with the symptom and not the cause. I absolutely do not blame doctors or patients for that, where the motivation to help and be helped is basic human instinct. I see some people in my own community though, on medication to get them through the day without any real hope of a practical change to their life circumstances, or help in how they cope with them. I'm talking about people who are physically unwell, alone, poor, unemployed and all manner of other unfortunate combinations. Their medical notes may well record depression or other mental health condition, but that would only be partially correct.

Of course there are many others for whom on the outside, the life circumstances they present seem near-perfect and they still struggle genuinely with depression. I'm just an ordinary joe, prone myself more to anxiety and paranoia, but I don't think society in general and the mental health professions in particular, have come near to a workable distinction between depression that is onset somewhat randomly like any other medical condition, physical or mental, and the sort of more predictable issues that arise because people are unable to cope (very understandably in this world) with what life has thrown at them.

I'm being deliberately careful as I write as I sincerely hope not to cause offense to anyone as I'm conscious of my post being interpreted as "people who get depressed are lacking in resilience" or similar. Maybe I'm being over sensitive but I would just like to make clear that I know that that absolutely isn't the case and I say that from personal experience. I find the understanding and support in this thread to be truly humbling, and I have often benefitted from a kind word or practical advice on offer from a fellow member here, someone unknown to me but with that common bond of Evertonian between us.
 
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im about 3 or 4 weeks in to going from 20mg to 40mg of fluexitine..

im feeling knackered quite a lot and if it wasn't for me pushing myself, I could quite easily just not bother getting up.

im not sure if the meds are quite right , I need to up it again or perhaps another change … the citalapram seem to work very well as I didn't have any of this and was only on the 20mg. it was the nitemares that I couldn't put up with..

I suppose its best to go back to the docs and see what they think... just want to find the right meds for me.
 
im about 3 or 4 weeks in to going from 20mg to 40mg of fluexitine..

im feeling knackered quite a lot and if it wasn't for me pushing myself, I could quite easily just not bother getting up.

im not sure if the meds are quite right , I need to up it again or perhaps another change … the citalapram seem to work very well as I didn't have any of this and was only on the 20mg. it was the nitemares that I couldn't put up with..

I suppose its best to go back to the docs and see what they think... just want to find the right meds for me.

Go back to the docs mate, possibly time for another change or try a 30mg dose ?

As you`re finding out, the process is quite hit and miss, but unfortunately there`s no other way to do it :(
 
Go back to the docs mate, possibly time for another change or try a 30mg dose ?

As you`re finding out, the process is quite hit and miss, but unfortunately there`s no other way to do it :(

I might just ask to go back on to the citalopram and try and cope with the nightmares, as they really did work for me.
 

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