Discussion & help on depression & mental health related issues

[anjelikaferrett]

I've had a day from hell. One of my members who has been on long term sick got turned down for ill health retirement yesterday. He will now get sacked - which sounds harsh but it a way of him leaving with some sort of payoff - he can't come back to work. That's agreed by everybody apart from the people who made the decision, who didn't even bother speaking to him. His payout will be nowhere near what he would have got had he been medically retired. He has taken it very badly.He messaged me to say he was in a very dark place and could I ring him. I rang him. He was crying, said he felt worthless, let down by everybody and what was the point of carrying on. He then said that he had enough medication in his house to finish himself off. (He takes a very high dose of morphine as pain relief for his still undiagnosed condition) I talked to him for a bit, said he had a lovely wife and two gorgeous children, why would he do something like that. He said because this decision impacts on them too. I said yes, but him not being there at all would impact on them more. It was the most awful conversation I have ever had. I spoke to HR and our in house counselling service who promised to ring him but I am genuinely traumatised by what happened today. I keep looking back and wondering if I could have done more for him. The ill health retirement decision isn't done in house, it was fully supported by our HR but I feel really bad for him.

 

[FC sexy xxx]

I've had a day from hell. One of my members who has been on long term sick got turned down for ill health retirement yesterday. He will now get sacked - which sounds harsh but it a way of him leaving with some sort of payoff - he can't come back to work. That's agreed by everybody apart from the people who made the decision, who didn't even bother speaking to him. His payout will be nowhere near what he would have got had he been medically retired. He has taken it very badly.He messaged me to say he was in a very dark place and could I ring him. I rang him. He was crying, said he felt worthless, let down by everybody and what was the point of carrying on. He then said that he had enough medication in his house to finish himself off. (He takes a very high dose of morphine as pain relief for his still undiagnosed condition) I talked to him for a bit, said he had a lovely wife and two gorgeous children, why would he do something like that. He said because this decision impacts on them too. I said yes, but him not being there at all would impact on them more. It was the most awful conversation I have ever had. I spoke to HR and our in house counselling service who promised to ring him but I am genuinely traumatised by what happened today. I keep looking back and wondering if I could have done more for him. The ill health retirement decision isn't done in house, it was fully supported by our HR but I feel really bad for him.

Bloody hell that’s a heavy weight to deal with . The poor fella has already had his life altered health wise then a big kick in the balls on top of that is ruthless/ borderline evil . All you can do is be there , this isn’t on you . I hope things improve. I’m in a similar situation though hopefully mine is temporary. I can’t get back to work because my eyesight has deteriorated badly and my only half decent eye needs a risky op to save it , 3 1/2 years out of work already then I get told this last week . At the match yesterday I thought niasse was lookman . Got to laugh I suppose.

Hope things get better for you and that poor bloke .

 

[dave n]

I'm just this week starting devorce. I don't even no where to start. What a nightmare

 

[anjelikaferrett]

Bloody hell that’s a heavy weight to deal with . The poor fella has already had his life altered health wise then a big kick in the balls on top of that is ruthless/ borderline evil . All you can do is be there , this isn’t on you . I hope things improve. I’m in a similar situation though hopefully mine is temporary. I can’t get back to work because my eyesight has deteriorated badly and my only half decent eye needs a risky op to save it , 3 1/2 years out of work already then I get told this last week . At the match yesterday I thought niasse was lookman . Got to laugh I suppose.

Hope things get better for you and that poor bloke .

Thanks. We are going to appeal the decision - again fully supported by HR but it could take months. I'm going to make a suggestion to that all Union reps get some kind of mental health first aid training.

 

[COYBL25]

I've had a day from hell. One of my members who has been on long term sick got turned down for ill health retirement yesterday. He will now get sacked - which sounds harsh but it a way of him leaving with some sort of payoff - he can't come back to work. That's agreed by everybody apart from the people who made the decision, who didn't even bother speaking to him. His payout will be nowhere near what he would have got had he been medically retired. He has taken it very badly.He messaged me to say he was in a very dark place and could I ring him. I rang him. He was crying, said he felt worthless, let down by everybody and what was the point of carrying on. He then said that he had enough medication in his house to finish himself off. (He takes a very high dose of morphine as pain relief for his still undiagnosed condition) I talked to him for a bit, said he had a lovely wife and two gorgeous children, why would he do something like that. He said because this decision impacts on them too. I said yes, but him not being there at all would impact on them more. It was the most awful conversation I have ever had. I spoke to HR and our in house counselling service who promised to ring him but I am genuinely traumatised by what happened today. I keep looking back and wondering if I could have done more for him. The ill health retirement decision isn't done in house, it was fully supported by our HR but I feel really bad for him.

That's just horrendous for everyone and having been involved in a similar situation, I can testify to what it does to your mental health.

What do your legal people say ?

 

[efcforever]

I've had a day from hell. One of my members who has been on long term sick got turned down for ill health retirement yesterday. He will now get sacked - which sounds harsh but it a way of him leaving with some sort of payoff - he can't come back to work. That's agreed by everybody apart from the people who made the decision, who didn't even bother speaking to him. His payout will be nowhere near what he would have got had he been medically retired. He has taken it very badly.He messaged me to say he was in a very dark place and could I ring him. I rang him. He was crying, said he felt worthless, let down by everybody and what was the point of carrying on. He then said that he had enough medication in his house to finish himself off. (He takes a very high dose of morphine as pain relief for his still undiagnosed condition) I talked to him for a bit, said he had a lovely wife and two gorgeous children, why would he do something like that. He said because this decision impacts on them too. I said yes, but him not being there at all would impact on them more. It was the most awful conversation I have ever had. I spoke to HR and our in house counselling service who promised to ring him but I am genuinely traumatised by what happened today. I keep looking back and wondering if I could have done more for him. The ill health retirement decision isn't done in house, it was fully supported by our HR but I feel really bad for him.

You have done and still are doing as much as you can. Hope things work out for the guy. It really is a cruel world.

 

[efcforever]

I'm just this week starting devorce. I don't even no where to start. What a nightmare

Sorry to hear that. How are you holding up?

 

[anjelikaferrett]

That's just horrendous for everyone and having been involved in a similar situation, I can testify to what it does to your mental health.

What do your legal people say ?

Nobody can believe he was turned down. Or even more that they didn't even bother to have a face to face meeting. They even said in the decision letter that they could see no reasonable adjustments they could make to enable him to return to work. They agreed that he has suffered a long term substantial breakdown of his health but because his condition is undiagnosed he might get better. It's a disgrace.

 

[COYBL25]

Nobody can believe he was turned down. Or even more that they didn't even bother to have a face to face meeting. They even said in the decision letter that they could see no reasonable adjustments they could make to enable him to return to work. They agreed that he has suffered a long term substantial breakdown of his health but because his condition is undiagnosed he might get better. It's a disgrace.

No fast track appeal ?

 

[anjelikaferrett]

No fast track appeal ?

The HR manager is going to speak to them to try and get it done. I can't fault HR - they have been fully on board. We tried to get his decision fast tracked but we applied for it in February so that shows how slowly they move. In the meantime my poor member was getting more and more upset.

 

[Minimeister]

I've had a day from hell. One of my members who has been on long term sick got turned down for ill health retirement yesterday. He will now get sacked - which sounds harsh but it a way of him leaving with some sort of payoff - he can't come back to work. That's agreed by everybody apart from the people who made the decision, who didn't even bother speaking to him. His payout will be nowhere near what he would have got had he been medically retired. He has taken it very badly.He messaged me to say he was in a very dark place and could I ring him. I rang him. He was crying, said he felt worthless, let down by everybody and what was the point of carrying on. He then said that he had enough medication in his house to finish himself off. (He takes a very high dose of morphine as pain relief for his still undiagnosed condition) I talked to him for a bit, said he had a lovely wife and two gorgeous children, why would he do something like that. He said because this decision impacts on them too. I said yes, but him not being there at all would impact on them more. It was the most awful conversation I have ever had. I spoke to HR and our in house counselling service who promised to ring him but I am genuinely traumatised by what happened today. I keep looking back and wondering if I could have done more for him. The ill health retirement decision isn't done in house, it was fully supported by our HR but I feel really bad for him.

Not wanting to get political but noticed it's a lot more difficult for someone to be accepted for ill health than it was say 4/5 years ago. Not sure if you've seen the medical evidence that would have been provided to support the application but in my experience it's usually that's not strong enough and might be worth seeking a second opinion for the appeal.

 

[anjelikaferrett]

Not wanting to get political but noticed it's a lot more difficult for someone to be accepted for ill health than it was say 4/5 years ago. Not sure if you've seen the medical evidence that would have been provided to support the application but in my experience it's usually that's not strong enough and might be worth seeking a second opinion for the appeal.

Absolutely

Not wanting to get political but noticed it's a lot more difficult for someone to be accepted for ill health than it was say 4/5 years ago. Not sure if you've seen the medical evidence that would have been provided to support the application but in my experience it's usually that's not strong enough and might be worth seeking a second opinion for the appeal.

.Absolutely, it's much harder now. The only thing I had not seen was the report his GP wrote in May. We had Occ Health reports backing us up as well and a report from his pain management consultant. There are two levels of ill health retirement in the civil Service - the lower tier which grants it on the grounds you are not fit to do your current job and the upper tier which says you are not fit for any job. I thought he would be nailed on for lower tier but he might get upper tier, which is reviewed every five years anyway. So even if he did make a miraculous recovery he could be reviewed.

 

[Minimeister]

Absolutely

.Absolutely, it's much harder now. The only thing I had not seen was the report his GP wrote in May. We had Occ Health reports backing us up as well and a report from his pain management consultant. There are two levels of ill health retirement in the civil Service - the lower tier which grants it on the grounds you are not fit to do your current job and the upper tier which says you are not fit for any job. I thought he would be nailed on for lower tier but he might get upper tier, which is reviewed every five years anyway. So even if he did make a miraculous recovery he could be reviewed.

I remember a nurse who was virtually crippled and struggled to even look after her young kids but because she was only in her mid 40's she got turned down. Absolutely baffling decision but when I spoke to our pensions they said they are finding it almost impossible for a younger person to get it nowadays because of the amount of years they have to retire and if I remember the upper tier is at an inflated rate so almost impossible to get with this government putting the pressure on. Good luck with the appeal, you can tell he got the best support he could have got from his staff side so don't let it get you down too much.

 

[chrismpw]

Not so much a mental health thing at all, just need some advice.

I've been looking for a job for the last few weeks. All of a sudden, I have effectively been offered two. One with one I applied for (1) and the other is a firm I used to work for (they just rang me up and asked if I would come back - 2).

So, the first one is very well paid and in London. A 15% bonus, work from home a few days a week and would involve international travel. It would be setting up a new process, the team would be in India. It sounds good on paper but I have real reservations that it will be much more than a 9-5 job and there is also an element of sales involved (which I really wouldn't like). Because the main team are based in India, I feel it would be a very individual job and it is a very big corporate firm. I would get around £600 a month more than I do now

The second is with my former employer. The wage is around 20% less (not based in London and the commute will be half as much). The person who I really disliked, and one of the main reason I left, has now gone. I have some good mates there and I am know I am highly thought of in a small-ish firm of 150 people or so. I know the job is very much 9-5 (no thought needed after working hours), I can work from home too with flexitime. They are growing and I'd be working with people I really get on with. I'll still be head of a department but I won't be shoved on my own in an office all day. Even through I would taking a small paycut on what I am on now, I would get around £150 more a month than I do now as the commute is cheaper.

I've always said I'd go for happiness/quality of life over money but this is the first time I have been faced with such a difference. I don't particularly need that much more money, but there is a good chance my partner and I will be starting a family soon and the money could help - but do I want the stress of travel/targets/probably working loads with that? That much more, to me, is a life changing amount but at the same time I like the idea of still a decent job working with some good makes and know I am highly through of... Just seems very hard (or stupid) to turn down that much money? I don;'t know.

Help!!

If it were me, id go back to my old place. You know them, they're asking for you, you know you're valued.
Again me, I simply detest the expense in time and money of a commute. Think of all the good interesting less tiring things you can do without time spent in a commute. Especially if you have a family in the future, how many hours a day would that waste? Stressful too, unreliable roads, rail etc.

I'm not suggesting what you should do here, I'm just voicing what i would choose. Im not a great fan of airports and travel either, nor London, so it's an easy choice for me. Certainly money isn't the be all and end all. You can live a happy contented life without sending shedfulls on tat just because society programmes us to accumulate.

You're not me though, and will have your own likes and duslikes. Best to write a list of pros and cons to each one. Go with your head, but consult your heart. Edit or, as @anjelicaferrett says ... Gut also good.

 

[FC sexy xxx]

Thanks. We are going to appeal the decision - again fully supported by HR but it could take months. I'm going to make a suggestion to that all Union reps get some kind of mental health first aid training.

Good luck .