2017/18 Davy Klaassen

[Pabbers]

Would like to know which league you think is better than the Premier League,which is the toughest, fastest, even possibly the most technically skillful league in the world, according to many pundits, players, and supporters.

Yes, prem pundits, prem fans and prem players!!!!

 

[Lanolin]

Quality-wise, the Premier League is six very good sides (one of those being world class) followed by 14 bang average sides (2-3 of them being awful).

Serie A is much more competitive this year and in terms of 'depth' of good sides - Serie A and LaLiga have teams that would waltz past most teams in the Prem (look at our EL campaign...).

The Premier League is the most intense in the world though. And it's roundly accepted that's the case and that it's much more physically demanding.

Technically and on the ball, I reckon Klaassen is more than good enough. It's his lack of physicality and presence that has been the main issue at the start, and because he wasn't given any time to bed in, but was thrown into the side as one of Koeman's eight no.10s, his confidence was shot pretty early on.

A real shame as I thought he could be a good player for us.

Move on. I think the lad really wants to do well here, but it's for the best if he leaves this month. Ideally, that'd be on loan to either another Prem side or a good Championship side. Get him playing regularly in England and see what he can deliver.

Some fair points there but I disagree with the bold bit. Firstly because I thought he looked poor in pre-season, and in the early European games with Ruzomberok which should have been an ideal introduction to the team for him. Secondly because I don't see how not playing early on could have been good for his confidence? Surely every player wants to play, and being unable to get into the team early on would have had a negative impact on most player's confidence levels?

I get what you're saying but it seems like we're just trying to make excuses for him. He's come over and it hasn't really worked out. I've seen nothing from him to suggest it ever will/would have worked out if I'm honest, because he's looked very very limited in every single game I've seen him play, without even those little hints of something lurking beneath the surface that you sometimes get from players that don't make the grade with us (Bilyaletdinov/Rodwell/Deulofeu etc).

 

[MickA]

Yeah to their players.

So no worse than what we saw anyway.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Would like to know which league you think is better than the Premier League,which is the toughest, fastest, even possibly the most technically skillful league in the world, according to many pundits, players, and supporters.

Toughest/fastest really depends on each game. Tie between Germany and PL for me personally, with the Prem just edging it, but in both leagues there are a lot of games like our last few ones where both teams were uber poo.

Most technically skilful is definitely not the PL though. Remember when an amazingly technically gifted English player came out of an English system recently? There's literally only a few - Rooney the most obvious example. Spain defo has amazingly technically gifted players (hi world cup and euro winners), but the emphasis on football there is more biased towards technique, not being a grock from Stoke.

 

[BlueToff]

Some fair points there but I disagree with the bold bit. Firstly because I thought he looked poor in pre-season, and in the early European games with Ruzomberok which should have been an ideal introduction to the team for him. Secondly because I don't see how not playing early on could have been good for his confidence? Surely every player wants to play, and being unable to get into the team early on would have had a negative impact on most player's confidence levels?

I get what you're saying but it seems like we're just trying to make excuses for him. He's come over and it hasn't really worked out. I've seen nothing from him to suggest it ever will/would have worked out if I'm honest, because he's looked very very limited in every single game I've seen him play, without even those little hints of something lurking beneath the surface that you sometimes get from players that don't make the grade with us (Bilyaletdinov/Rodwell/Deulofeu etc).

Not blaming it all on Koeman mate, but I saw enough of Klaassen at Ajax to know he's a good player. I saw him play in the flesh for Holland as well and was impressed.

While I wasn't overly impressed with anyone in pre-season, I think it would be harsh to say Klaassen played badly?

He pressed high, he looked to join up with the midfield when possible and he showed some nice touches. Not great, but not poor by any stretch.

His quick-thinking got us the win against Ruzomberok away, and he played really well in the home game against Split.

And no I'm not making excuses.

But there's a proper method with how things should be done when a player needs to adapt.

Look at Mkhitaryan, for example. Ignore this season, but in his first season Mourinho used him in the EL and the odd cup game up until about December. In that time he was bulking up physically in training and getting used to the system, and he had a really good back half of the campaign.

It's a combination of things with both Sandro and Klaassen.

Neither of them have adapted quick enough - in terms of both the physicality but also changing up their game to suit the English game.

However, none of the managers have helped them as there has been no set style or system in place - and both of these young players have literally spent their entire careers (bar one season in Sandro's case) at clubs where the style is there and everybody knows their roles.

 

[Penno]

Send him to another club via the couriers Yodel and when they lose him claim on the insurance.

 

[smileychap]

Quality-wise, the Premier League is six very good sides (one of those being world class) followed by 14 bang average sides (2-3 of them being awful).

Serie A is much more competitive this year and in terms of 'depth' of good sides - Serie A and LaLiga have teams that would waltz past most teams in the Prem (look at our EL campaign...).

The Premier League is the most intense in the world though. And it's roundly accepted that's the case and that it's much more physically demanding.

Technically and on the ball, I reckon Klaassen is more than good enough. It's his lack of physicality and presence that has been the main issue at the start, and because he wasn't given any time to bed in, but was thrown into the side as one of Koeman's eight no.10s, his confidence was shot pretty early on.

A real shame as I thought he could be a good player for us.

Move on. I think the lad really wants to do well here, but it's for the best if he leaves this month. Ideally, that'd be on loan to either another Prem side or a good Championship side. Get him playing regularly in England and see what he can deliver.

Here speaketh wisdom.

 

[smileychap]

Send him to another club via the couriers Yodel and when they lose him claim on the insurance.

Harsh but funny.

 

[sageyefc]

He's weak as a child and as slow as a glacier but he at least can pass it forward, might aswell give him a couple of games

 

[granter79]

Criticised on here for forward one touch passing cracked me up!!!

Agree theres a player in there but doubt hel get a chance

 

[Steve Wigan]

Toughest/fastest really depends on each game. Tie between Germany and PL for me personally, with the Prem just edging it, but in both leagues there are a lot of games like our last few ones where both teams were uber poo.

Most technically skilful is definitely not the PL though. Remember when an amazingly technically gifted English player came out of an English system recently? There's literally only a few - Rooney the most obvious example. Spain defo has amazingly technically gifted players (hi world cup and euro winners), but the emphasis on football there is more biased towards technique, not being a grock from Stoke.

Some good responses overall to my original question...its an interesting debate. I agree about the high technical standard in Spain, but of course part of the reason the Premier League tops the rest, as far as I'm concerned is the quantity of technically excellent European and South American players in the league. The question isn't 'which nationality' it 'which league'...and as someone said above, even the best leagues(Germany,Spain, Premier) have their fair share of terrible, boring games. TV gives us access to football from all over the world,and I think the best word written above re the Premier League is 'intense'...intensity plus skill plus spectacle plus drama is what makes the Prem what it is.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Some good responses overall to my original question...its an interesting debate. I agree about the high technical standard in Spain, but of course part of the reason the Premier League tops the rest, as far as I'm concerned is the quantity of technically excellent European and South American players in the league. The question isn't 'which nationality' it 'which league'...and as someone said above, even the best leagues(Germany,Spain, Premier) have their fair share of terrible, boring games. TV gives us access to football from all over the world,and I think the best word written above re the Premier League is 'intense'...intensity plus skill plus spectacle plus drama is what makes the Prem what it is.

Hahah it was me that said it in the post you quoted lol

But agreed, interesting debate. Intensity is what makes the PL great, that much is true. It's a quality that usually "lesser" leagues have, but the Prem's kept that, which is good.

 

[Lanolin]

Not blaming it all on Koeman mate, but I saw enough of Klaassen at Ajax to know he's a good player. I saw him play in the flesh for Holland as well and was impressed.

While I wasn't overly impressed with anyone in pre-season, I think it would be harsh to say Klaassen played badly?

He pressed high, he looked to join up with the midfield when possible and he showed some nice touches. Not great, but not poor by any stretch.

His quick-thinking got us the win against Ruzomberok away, and he played really well in the home game against Split.

And no I'm not making excuses.

But there's a proper method with how things should be done when a player needs to adapt.

Look at Mkhitaryan, for example. Ignore this season, but in his first season Mourinho used him in the EL and the odd cup game up until about December. In that time he was bulking up physically in training and getting used to the system, and he had a really good back half of the campaign.

It's a combination of things with both Sandro and Klaassen.

Neither of them have adapted quick enough - in terms of both the physicality but also changing up their game to suit the English game.

However, none of the managers have helped them as there has been no set style or system in place - and both of these young players have literally spent their entire careers (bar one season in Sandro's case) at clubs where the style is there and everybody knows their roles.

I'm not saying he was absolutely atrocious in pre-season, simply that his performances were no better then than they have been in competitive games. Also i'm not disputing that you've seen him have good games, or saying he's an absolutely terrible player. The fact is though, not once in an Everton shirt has he looked anything more than OK. His 'quick thinking' in Ruzomberok saw him play a simple 10 yard pass into acres of space. It was nicely done don't get me wrong, but not exactly worthy of a highlight reel. You can float around doing nothing for 89 minutes if your one spark sees you ping one in the top corner from 30 yards, but if the sum of your contribution is going to be a well executed piece of simple football you're not going to stay in the team long - that's why he hasn't.

Using the Mkhitaryan example as a 'proper method' doesn't really work for many reasons. Firstly, there are countless players who have come to the PL and hit the ground running, so just isolating one player who didn't and saying 'that's how you deal with it' is incredibly selective and therefore an unsound basis for your conclusion. Secondly, that's not quite what happened with him anyway - he played in their first few games before getting injured and then couldn't get his place back until about December. Thirdly, and most importantly, you want us to 'ignore this season'. Your example of showing how you can help a player settle properly hinges on us ignoring the fact that he hasn't actually settled at all! 18 months after signing, Mkhitaryan has completed 90 minutes just 3 times in the Premier League, has only 5 goals and 6 assists, and is reportedly on the verge of being offloaded.

 

[larrygobfiend]

He'll be loaned back to Ajax and he'll eventually be sold for a £10 million loss.

 

[Abraders]

He's not even proved he can pass a ball he's been standout dreadful every time he played.