2025/26 David Moyes

[GrandOldTeam]

To be fair you invented a scenario where we weren't winning a trophy for another 30 years mate. I merely provided the counter balance.

This is the thing though, you will say two, someone else will say three, someone else will say 0 - you wont please everyone, so do what you think is right yourself.

Wolves made 8 changes last night to their team at the weekend - so obviously the consequences aren't that predictable.

Well, context matters - if we were sat bottom of the league, without a win, setting records for consecutive games of being behind at half time then yes - make as many changes as you can, if nothing else to try and light a fire/kick up the arse.

We went there, to a team on it's arse and by fielding a weakened team - give them every opportunity to find their feet. Michael Ball was correct here;



We're never going to agree.

I think we should prioritise cup competitions - as the club captain said hours prior the game yesterday.

You/Moyes think we should give fringe players the chance to prevent injuries for the league, and to develop players to *checks your notes*, win the same competition years down the line.

I'd suggest your/Moyes view, will lead to another 30 years without a trophy. Moyes has never won a domestic trophy - it's no coincidence Glasner wins an FA Cup with Palace. They don't win that Hodgson.

If we'd beat bottom of the league opposition yesterday, we'd have been 4 games away from the biggest achievement of this club in 30 years.

That to me is a big wasted opporunity - evidently, based on actions as well as words - the manager disagrees.

We get the team we deserve with that attitude.

 

[Lapeno77]

Probably only two managers this century have had a proper go at the cup comps and understand what it would mean to the fans to win something. They were Ancellotti and Martinez.

I've said it before, it's safety first with Moyes, league above all else, any cup progress is in spite of him not because of.

Disjointed line up full of under cooked players compounded by a refusal to alter the formation. Given our striker issues, would it be crazy to try two up top?

But as others have said, he's here to give us mid table mediocrity, nothing more. Guess it's that or relegation threatened panic, Everton can't do anything else, apparently.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Equally i think you are a bit naieve on sports sceince mate.

I dont have the data - see all those ipads they are carrying on the side line - that is real time data being translated via GPS monitors on the players, that tell a manager when someone is at risk, fading etc, etc. There is another team up in the stands with laptops extrapolating other data. Its quite the science these days.

On that game set with Grealsih, i suspect we were building load, he had no game load over the summer - 19 mins Vs Leeds, then we were looking to build the load, his mins would have been managed and monitored, its often a fine balance building load for fitness and not risking injury. Obviously there is a culminative effect to that, if you do it continuously the more impact it has, so you decide when recover i.e. rotate someone. So Moyes took wolves last night. Rightly or Wrongly.

Interestingly i believe one of the reasons he fell out of favour with Pep, was Pep didn't feel Jack could do it midweek and weekend - weekend to weekend he was fine. Pep wasn't also a fan of how he took care of himself (Foden to for that mater).

Honestly don't see how I'm being naive. The naivety we saw last night was from Moyes and others who thought we could put that side out and beat a top flight side away from home.

You also haven't explained how teams in Europe, who have a minimum of 8 more matches than us to play, do not need to rotate every week in the champions league? By your argument regarding sports science etc, it would be dangerous for their players to play these matches ?

 

[Lanolin]

We can't play the same 11 every game. They would be burnt out by Xmas. The squad is there to be used.
Where are we going to give fringe players a game if not in games like this?
The PL is our bread and butter, it is what pays the bills. The league cup is whilst a cup for the fans is not going to generate much in the long run so why risk your better players in it.

If I had to select Everton's 5 best/most important players I would say Pickford, Branthwaite, Gana, Grealish and Ndiaye. I think possibly half the fanbase or more would say the same 5, probably over 90% would have some combination of 4 of them in there. We chose to go into a game without any of them playing, 4 of them purely by choice. That's not just giving fringe players a chance and using your squad, it's asking for trouble. In fact i'd go as far as to say it's not giving fringe players a chance. I can be pretty confident that someone like Alcaraz will be taking the view that judging him on his performance next to McNeil and Dibling with Iroegbunam covering him is not a fair comparison to what KDH can do with Grealish and Ndiaye to work with and Gana being a wrecking ball behind him.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

If I had to select Everton's 5 best/most important players I would say Pickford, Branthwaite, Gana, Grealish and Ndiaye. I think possibly half the fanbase or more would say the same 5, probably over 90% would have some combination of 4 of them in there. We chose to go into a game without any of them playing, 4 of them purely by choice. That's not just giving fringe players a chance and using your squad, it's asking for trouble. In fact i'd go as far as to say it's not giving fringe players a chance. I can be pretty confident that someone like Alcaraz will be taking the view that judging him on his performance next to McNeil and Dibling with Iroegbunam covering him is not a fair comparison to what KDH can do with Grealish and Ndiaye to work with and Gana being a wrecking ball behind him.

It's also giving the likes of Dibling a bum steer by lashing them in a team that's nowhere near our best.

 

[Neiler]

Well, context matters - if we were sat bottom of the league, without a win, setting records for consecutive games of being behind at half time then yes - make as many changes as you can, if nothing else to try and light a fire/kick up the arse.

We went there, to a team on it's arse and by fielding a weakened team - give them every opportunity to find their feet. Michael Ball was correct here;



We're never going to agree.

I think we should prioritise cup competitions - as the club captain said hours prior the game yesterday.

You/Moyes think we should give fringe players the chance to prevent injuries for the league, and to develop players to *checks your notes*, win the same competition years down the line.

I'd suggest your/Moyes view, will lead to another 30 years without a trophy. Moyes has never won a domestic trophy - it's no coincidence Glasner wins an FA Cup with Palace. They don't win that Hodgson.

If we'd beat bottom of the league opposition yesterday, we'd have been 4 games away from the biggest achievement of this club in 30 years.

That to me is a big wasted opporunity - evidently, based on actions as well as words - the manager disagrees.

We get the team we deserve with that attitude.

We wont agree mate. While in the same context - your didnt want Moyes back anyway, were im a fan boy so that colours each of our bias's to objectivity.

However i would suggest, any improvement will be incremental as opposed to us winning a trophy straight out the bat three weeks after finishing our first window after spendning a bean in half a decade. I think that expectation is incredibly unrealistic and frankly unfair. As said it was year four, backed by a sovereign wealth fund that Howe won with Newcastle, its clearly a project rather then event - to qualify that - would you say that team is finished? In fact would you say the squad is balanced? No - it doesn't even have full backs - yet somehow we shoudl expect to win a trophy - therefore both those things are incongruent and the expectation unsubstantiated.

You can say its unambitious to think anything else, but ambition without a plan i.e. Barry, Dibling, Charly, Azou Rohl etc - is just blind hope - ambition with a plan to develop, improve and make successful those players is a plan with a method to get to the success - we only do that by actually developing them.

The debate really is instant sucess Vs incremental.

Are we still a club in recovery or are we a club that should win trophies...................realistically - i think its a hard man that says we should be winning torphies right now.

 

[Davideeyore]

Unfortunately whether we agree or not, Moyes not arsed about this tie/cup. We now concentrate on the league.

 

[Titus Shambles]

I don't think many would deny young players on the fringes getting a start but Coleman at left -back especially as the club has just spent 10 million on a young left back makes no sense. On the left hand side last night was Dwight and Seamus..enough said.
Is it a question of time before DM morphs into SeanDyche with his favourtism and lack of imagination?

Can't be comparing Moyes to Dyche. Dyche's entire career has been nothing but 442/451 hoofball with zero attacking intent nor plan to win games instead of play not to lose; no variance or variations ever, and no changing the team ever because his favourites play no matter what. The man could have had peak Messi in his squad and he would've played less than Beto because he can't win headers when we launch the ball 60m up the pitch to him.

Yesterday was poor and Moyes definitely went with the wrong lineup, but he is still a vast upgrade to Sean "everton was like that before i got here so losing every week has nothing to do with me" Dyche.

 

[willo30]

Unfortunately whether we agree or not, Moyes not arsed about this tie/cup. We now concentrate on the league.

Which is what it is all about at the end of the day.

Moyes and the club have got to next league game with no injuries to the best players. Job done.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

We wont agree mate. While in the same context - your didnt want Moyes back anyway, were im a fan boy so that colours each of our bias's to objectivity.

However i would suggest, any improvement will be incremental as opposed to us winning a trophy straight out the bat three weeks after finishing our first window after spendning a bean in half a decade. I think that expectation is incredibly unrealistic and frankly unfair. As said it was year four, backed by a sovereign wealth fund that Howe won with Newcastle, its clearly a project rather then event - to qualify that - would you say that team is finished? In fact would you say the squad is balanced? No - it doesn't even have full backs - yet somehow we shoudl expect to win a trophy - therefore both those things are incongruent and the expectation unsubstantiated.

You can say its unambitious to think anything else, but ambition without a plan i.e. Barry, Dibling, Charly, Azou Rohl etc - is just blind hope - ambition with a plan to develop, improve and make successful those players is a plan with a method to get to the success - we only do that by actually developing them.

The debate really is instant sucess Vs incremental.

Are we still a club in recovery or are we a club that should win trophies...................realistically - i think its a hard man that says we should be winning torphies right now.

Still finding myself shaking my head at your points mate.

It's not about demanding instant gratification.

It's as simple as acknowledging we've not won a trophy since 1995 and playing your best team in a cup competition we had a chance of winning.

You can talk up incremental steps all you like, but count the years Moyes has managed in the Prem, over a decade with us and then count his domestic trophies.

With the approach last night, reaffirmed by Moyes after the match of using it as a chance to play fringe players - we'll never win a cup with that route until our weakened team is good enough to. Bonkers.

 

[davek]

It's weird. Should have gone out and got the result last night. Instead he has put pressure on himself in match Monday where the opposition manager was most likely getting sacked if lost..

We'll get that win and loads will think the cup loss and derby surrender were aberrations.

This football club is one of the biggest institutions in British football but our fans accept two bob managers like Moyes because he keeps us safe.

He's ridden the Everton gravy train for 12 years now and counting...

 

[Neiler]

Honestly don't see how I'm being naive. The naivety we saw last night was from Moyes and others who thought we could put that side out and beat a top flight side away from home.

You also haven't explained how teams in Europe, who have a minimum of 8 more matches than us to play, do not need to rotate every week in the champions league? By your argument regarding sports science etc, it would be dangerous for their players to play these matches ?

It depends on the player mate, fitness is less generalised and more personalised if that makes sense - take someone like JT - he can play an incredible amout of mins, but someone llike Illy has to be managed. Some pisitions in teams are also more demanding then others - take At Nouri at City right now hes already injureed becaus ehis position and the deamnds of it, takes him to the red zone very coinsistently. Most of the CL teams have two players for each position this we know, they will manage mins in games and they will rotate in and out when the data suggests and they do pick up injuries - its why you see managers and players speak more and more about playing to many games and risks involved.

Im not the expert but i have in recent years been involved in management groups in different sports - not soccer - in fact far less money swirling around - i was amazed by development sin sports science since i stopped playing at a serious level, its incredible i learned so much and its quite amazing how much we got so wrong in year gone by.

You can even model someone's running gait and pattern and predict injury - 1 of 1000's of metrics - some club wont sign players because of it - in fact i think Ferguson wouldn't sign Henderson over it.

 

[Titus Shambles]

Which is what it is all about at the end of the day.

Moyes and the club have got to next league game with no injuries to the best players. Job done.

...until Grealish and Ndiaye clatter into each other in training tomorrow and both are out til Easter.

 

[chicoazul]

Good debate to be fair.

 

[Neiler]

Still finding myself shaking my head at your points mate.

It's not about demanding instant gratification.

It's as simple as acknowledging we've not won a trophy since 1995 and playing your best team in a cup competition we had a chance of winning.

You can talk up incremental steps all you like, but count the years Moyes has managed in the Prem, over a decade with us and then count his domestic trophies.

With the approach last night, reaffirmed by Moyes after the match of using it as a chance to play fringe players - we'll never win a cup with that route until our weakened team is good enough to. Bonkers.

Does he have a point though mate. I mean can you win a trophy and compete on other fronts if you dont have a level squad of 25.

We aren't spending £30 mill (conservatively) on 25 players - so we have to develop Dibilng Charly, Barry Azouu, Rohl etc - we can accept they aren't the finished product - we can accept we need to develop yung players - why do we think that means we should win a trophy this season - that just doesn't make sense to me. To my mind we invested the least of our resources in the summer on right now (Grealish and KDH) and the majority in the future on the player i mentioned above. There is nothing in our investments or actions that says the prioitity is right now - they say in the future.

Sure you can fluke one now, but its more unlikely then not given the context.

I get the feel good, recovery, we're back baby stuff - but it has limits year 1.