2025/26 David Moyes

[davek]

That’s anbsolutely fine. You’re entitled to your opinion Dave.

I just prefer to look at the facts.

I dont think your statement was fact, tbh.

You have the problem of not being able to compare Moyes' extended (and unsuccessful)12 season run as manager - where momentum, cohesion and form can be built - with much shorter tenures. For example, how do you come to the conclusion that Martinez's three season spell of getting us into Europe and extended cup runs compares unfavourably with Moyes 12 seasons in charge? How do you make that calculation? You cant, because you rule out context and simply go for a headline figure like 4th versus 5th in the table.

It's lacking in rigour and it's simplistic.

 

[MikeH72]

I dont think your statement was fact, tbh.

You have the problem of not being able to compare Moyes' extended (and unsuccessful)12 season run as manager - where momentum, cohesion and form can be built - with much shorter tenures. For example, how do you come to the conclusion that Martinez's three season spell of getting us into Europe and extended cup runs compares unfavourably with Moyes 12 seasons in charge? How do you make that calculation? You cant, because you rule out context and simply go for a headline figure like 4th versus 5th in the table.

It's lacking in rigour and it's simplistic.

Of course other context can also be totally ignored, like one manager inheriting an established top 6 team and the other inheriting a relegation haunted basket case with no money and Fat Gazza running around the training ground with his undies on his head.

 

[DanB90]

I dont think your statement was fact, tbh.

You have the problem of not being able to compare Moyes' extended (and unsuccessful)12 season run as manager - where momentum, cohesion and form can be built - with much shorter tenures. For example, how do you come to the conclusion that Martinez's three season spell of getting us into Europe and extended cup runs compares unfavourably with Moyes 12 seasons in charge? How do you make that calculation? You cant, because you rule out context and simply go for a headline figure like 4th versus 5th in the table.

It's lacking in rigour and it's simplistic.

You’re entitled to your opinion.

 

[wandyr79]

Of course other context can also be totally ignored, like one manager inheriting an established top 6 team and the other inheriting a relegation haunted basket case with no money and Fat Gazza running around the training ground with his undies on his head.

This is it for me. The idea of success is fluid.

Fans of the 90s should definitely see Moyes as more success than failure, it may be the other way around with fans who saw the 80s.

For me (90s), Moyes raised the expectation level. He gave me and a lot of us a taste of what could be. There were ups and downs but on the whole he had a successful time here.

The team he left could have been built upon, there was a good mix of youthful prospects, players in their prime and experience. That first season was a wow season, and Martinez was unlucky the way the points and league panned out. He didn't build on it though, he was arrogant in his philosophy, he was stubborn. Not a great combination, and his philosophy was not good for the premier league. It was easy to counter, and added to that, he brought in players who were not good enough for his kind of football and, in some cases, any kind of football.

 

[DanB90]

This is it for me. The idea of success is fluid.

Fans of the 90s should definitely see Moyes as more success than failure, it may be the other way around with fans who saw the 80s.

For me (90s), Moyes raised the expectation level. He gave me and a lot of us a taste of what could be. There were ups and downs but on the whole he had a successful time here.

The team he left could have been built upon, there was a good mix of youthful prospects, players in their prime and experience. That first season was a wow season, and Martinez was unlucky the way the points and league panned out. He didn't build on it though, he was arrogant in his philosophy, he was stubborn. Not a great combination, and his philosophy was not good for the premier league. It was easy to counter, and added to that, he brought in players who were not good enough for his kind of football and, in some cases, any kind of football.

Agree with this.

And if people want to brand Moyes a failure, that’s absolutely fine.

But he was less of a failure than every manager we’ve had since.

 

[toffeeblue9]

They're Moyes supporters mate. I completely get it. There's a cohort on here who'd rather see Moyes keep his job - the feller who abused the club and the fans, btw - than be criticised for not winning anything in his 12 years here. A figure which is probably the worst rate of failure for trophies per season in tenure for any manager we've ever had, btw.

The feller is a duffer and needs calling out for it at every point.

Do you want me to vault the Benitez stuff again?

 

[PITA]

I’d imagine that records are being broken regularly, just not the ones that you are looking for.
Ie I’d be very suprised if fastest sprints, most distance covered etc etc aren’t being constantly broken / improved over the last couple of decades.

Which records am I looking for?

 

[PITA]

Isn't he?

Did you not get the sarcasm?

 

[PITA]

Partly because those are sports where the advancements are measured against fixed metrics - against time, or distance for example.
Footballers are getting better, but for every time a goalscorer or attacking player gets better, so do the defenders and goalkeepers.

I know. I was being sarcastic. In what world would anyone think that other sportspeople are developing over time but football is going backwards?

 

[b-rad]

I know. I was being sarcastic. In what world would anyone think that other sportspeople are developing over time but football is going backwards?

Too little sleep for me to be recognising sarcasm.

 

[degsy]

View attachment 336403

Yeah but *splutters, but but, this is mostly despite Moyes not because of him, I mean he's Moyes ffs, Dour, Dithering Davy*














*
A statement is deemed ironic when its intended meaning is the opposite of its literal or surface meaning, creating a deliberate contrast between appearance and reality.

This incongruity must be recognizable to the audience or reader for the irony to be successful.

 

[Toffeepot]

If results underline his previous stated position that a European spot is possible - why on earth would he change his mind and then say it's something that should not be expected?

Over to you...

Because some people has an amazing ability to take the minority position when things change. Some use it for things like motivating a premier league team, others use it for things like winding up a forum

 

[b-rad]

I dont think your statement was fact, tbh.

You have the problem of not being able to compare Moyes' extended (and unsuccessful)12 season run as manager - where momentum, cohesion and form can be built - with much shorter tenures. For example, how do you come to the conclusion that Martinez's three season spell of getting us into Europe and extended cup runs compares unfavourably with Moyes 12 seasons in charge? How do you make that calculation? You cant, because you rule out context and simply go for a headline figure like 4th versus 5th in the table.

It's lacking in rigour and it's simplistic.

Where's this three season spell of getting us into Europe and extended cup runs???
We got into Europa League once. Hardly a spell of getting us into Europe.

We had one semi final of the FA Cup and one semi final of the League Cup. Out of the other 4 cup competitions during that period, we went out at the first hurdle in two of them.

 

[Bedfordblue]

Which records am I looking for?

The ones you can’t find.

You tell me which metrics in football you don’t think are being exceeded in the modern game through improved diet, sports science and ‘technology’

You reference speed and distance. Do you think the old leather balls travelled with more pace than the modern ones?
Do you dispute sprints and distance covered haven’t increased?

Or are you just puzzled why Dixie Deans one season goal record hasn’t been broken, as you made quite a sweeping statement.

 

[davek]

Because some people has an amazing ability to take the minority position when things change. Some use it for things like motivating a premier league team, others use it for things like winding up a forum

Motivation?

Telling fans they shouldn't believe too much that a European position - low hanging fruit for even Forest and Palace in recent seasons - is possible would probably motivate players to clock off because they have zero expectations to meet.

It's ok to set a reasonable target...Moyes did in the summer when he stated there's no reason why European qualification was out of the question. It's just a pity he's gone to his default position of expectation management when it become's a possibility.