2025/26 David Moyes

[GrandOldTeam]

@Kev The Rat bit surprised by your reversal on Moyes.

You went in two footed repeatedly on me for my reservations on him returning because he'd stay beyond last season, you seemed his biggest advocate, but now you want him gone?

... when we're 1 win from 6th?

How come? Curious as to what changed your mind so dramatically on a manager you should know better than any other.

 

[Ed_Winchester]

Bottom half would be massively disappointing, don't think the squad is perfect by any means, but we've put ourselves in a good position and if they can't get up for games against dross like West Ham and Spurs to get into Europe then when can you

If you said this is where we’d be at the final stages of the season this time last year, I’d have snapped your hand off.
That said, I think we’re also ahead of where we should be, based on the last few years’ troubles and the squad we have.
I would say incremental progress is key for Everton now. We’re one bad transfer window away from sending us backwards, so the decisions made on player recruitment have to be spot on for the next season or two.

That said, you have to take opportunities when they present themselves and a European place shouldn’t be given up without a fight.

 

[Lanolin]

If you said this is where we’d be at the final stages of the season this time last year, I’d have snapped your hand off.
That said, I think we’re also ahead of where we should be, based on the last few years’ troubles and the squad we have.
I would say incremental progress is key for Everton now. We’re one bad transfer window away from sending us backwards, so the decisions made on player recruitment have to be spot on for the next season or two.

That said, you have to take opportunities when they present themselves and a European place shouldn’t be given up without a fight.

A lot of people say this but I don't really understand why. In the last 2 seasons we've earned the points to finish 12th and 13th, why would you have snapped someone's hand off to be 2 points ahead of 12th and 4 points ahead of 13th (having played a game more)? We've done alright and put ourselves in a position where this could still be seen as a good season, but we could also very conceivably end up finishing no higher than last year. Snapping someone's hand off for that is just bizarre.

 

[Nymzee]

A lot of people say this but I don't really understand why. In the last 2 seasons we've earned the points to finish 12th and 13th, why would you have snapped someone's hand off to be 2 points ahead of 12th and 4 points ahead of 13th (having played a game more)? We've done alright and put ourselves in a position where this could still be seen as a good season, but we could also very conceivably end up finishing no higher than last year. Snapping someone's hand off for that is just bizarre.

We finished 17 points from Europe last season.
We finished 15 points from Europe the season before.

This season is not the same as those two.

 

[Lanolin]

We finished 17 points from Europe last season.
We finished 15 points from Europe the season before.

This season is not the same as those two.

I didn't say it was? As I said, I think we've done alright, but doing alright and 'i'd have snapped your hand off for this' are not the same thing. I can get people saying they think we've improved and are content with what we've done, I can't get people making out like we've made huge strides and are doing better than any of us could possibly have imagined.

Personally I see league position as a much better indicator of performance than points comparison because points are relative to the season you get them in. Tottenham could go down with more points than they got last year, good luck convincing people that's evidence of them getting better.

 

[Nymzee]

I didn't say it was? As I said, I think we've done alright, but doing alright and 'i'd have snapped your hand off for this' are not the same thing. I can get people saying they think we've improved and are content with what we've done, I can't get people making out like we've made huge strides and are doing better than any of us could possibly have imagined.

Personally I see league position as a much better indicator of performance than points comparison because points are relative to the season you get them in. Tottenham could go down with more points than they got last year, good luck convincing people that's evidence of them getting better.

If you wouldn't have snapped someone's hand off being a couple of points from Europe with 5 games left I don't know what you want from supporting Everton.

 

[MACCA75]

A lot of people say this but I don't really understand why. In the last 2 seasons we've earned the points to finish 12th and 13th, why would you have snapped someone's hand off to be 2 points ahead of 12th and 4 points ahead of 13th (having played a game more)? We've done alright and put ourselves in a position where this could still be seen as a good season, but we could also very conceivably end up finishing no higher than last year. Snapping someone's hand off for that is just bizarre.

I think Dyches last full season was a lot worse than people remember it. I think we had four wins on the trot right at the very end, and it put a different complexion on what was a dreadful season for the most part - only pulling clear of relegation in the last 5 games.

Obviously last season we were right in the relegation mix until Moyes came in too, so this season has a completely different feel.

 

[wandyr79]

A lot of people say this but I don't really understand why. In the last 2 seasons we've earned the points to finish 12th and 13th, why would you have snapped someone's hand off to be 2 points ahead of 12th and 4 points ahead of 13th (having played a game more)? We've done alright and put ourselves in a position where this could still be seen as a good season, but we could also very conceivably end up finishing no higher than last year. Snapping someone's hand off for that is just bizarre.

I think it is more to do with seeing positives over negatives.

Is it more positive to be flirting with Europe and then frustratingly fall short, or is it more positive to spend the whole season in the bottom half flirting with relegation and then fortunately pulling yourself away. Dyches full season included a very, very long barren spell of no wins. It was depressing the whole season, all but for a few games here and there.

Also, the only reason we finished where we did last season is because Moyes was gifted enough time to get us there, if Dyche had stayed on longer we may be saying 15th/16th or worse.

 

[Lanolin]

If you wouldn't have snapped someone's hand off being a couple of points from Europe with 5 games left I don't know what you want from supporting Everton.

Maybe it's just a semantics thing. To me 'i'd have snapped your hand off for this' means that what is being proposed is so much better than you might reasonably expect that you would accept it without thinking, there's effectively no way that it could possibly get any better than what's being offered so you accept it before the person changes their mind. Being 10th doesn't meet that threshold for me. In a poll on here in the summer something like 90% of people said they expected us to finish top half so I don't think i'm the only one.

Like I said, points are only relevant in the season you get them. Last season you needed 65 points to finish 7th, this year you won't need anything like that so us being closer to 7th in terms of points isn't actually evidence of anything. There's a league table for a reason, that shows where you are in relation to your peers, and for me personally moving up to 10th this year would be an acceptable level of improvement but no more than that. Like I said, there's still the possibility of doing better than that and I'd be very happy indeed if we did manage to finish 6th or 7th, but there's also the possibility of doing worse and I wouldn't be happy with 12th or 13th. It doesn't seem that difficult to understand I don't think.

 

[mikew1878]

With the managers that are potentially available in the summer, if we finish outside the European places we absolutely must try and move on from Moyes IMO.

 

[Nymzee]

Maybe it's just a semantics thing. To me 'i'd have snapped your hand off for this' means that what is being proposed is so much better than you might reasonably expect that you would accept it without thinking, there's effectively no way that it could possibly get any better than what's being offered so you accept it before the person changes their mind. Being 10th doesn't meet that threshold for me. In a poll on here in the summer something like 90% of people said they expected us to finish top half so I don't think i'm the only one.

Like I said, points are only relevant in the season you get them. Last season you needed 65 points to finish 7th, this year you won't need anything like that so us being closer to 7th in terms of points isn't actually evidence of anything. There's a league table for a reason, that shows where you are in relation to your peers, and for me personally moving up to 10th this year would be an acceptable level of improvement but no more than that. Like I said, there's still the possibility of doing better than that and I'd be very happy indeed if we did manage to finish 6th or 7th, but there's also the possibility of doing worse and I wouldn't be happy with 12th or 13th. It doesn't seem that difficult to understand I don't think.

That's a whole lot of waffle.

If someone had said last Summer "with 5 games to go, possible EL place there for the taking" any reasonable Evertonian would snap their hand off after the last few years.

 

[Marcus Kendall]

A lot of people say this but I don't really understand why. In the last 2 seasons we've earned the points to finish 12th and 13th, why would you have snapped someone's hand off to be 2 points ahead of 12th and 4 points ahead of 13th (having played a game more)? We've done alright and put ourselves in a position where this could still be seen as a good season, but we could also very conceivably end up finishing no higher than last year. Snapping someone's hand off for that is just bizarre.

What's the comparison points wise this season compared to the season we had the points deduction? I reckon it'll be similar

 

[MikeH72]

What's the comparison points wise this season compared to the season we had the points deduction? I reckon it'll be similar

We’re currently 1 point off our total for that season without the deduction.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

There's a league table for a reason, that shows where you are in relation to your peers,

Indeed, surprisingly lost on a lot of folk. Its like kopites who whine they'd have won the league most seasons with their points under Klopp if it wasn't for Man City.

Like I said, there's still the possibility of doing better than that and I'd be very happy indeed if we did manage to finish 6th or 7th, but there's also the possibility of doing worse and I wouldn't be happy with 12th or 13th. It doesn't seem that difficult to understand I don't think.

With a sprinkling of we're talking 2-4 results which will determine messiah from a very naughty boy.

He's either the right man, based on decades of experience, or he isn't. If people flip flop on 2-4 results, then perhaps its worthy of reflection.

 

[Lanolin]

I think Dyches last full season was a lot worse than people remember it. I think we had four wins on the trot right at the very end, and it put a different complexion on what was a dreadful season for the most part - only pulling clear of relegation in the last 5 games.

Obviously last season we were right in the relegation mix until Moyes came in too, so this season has a completely different feel.

Oh believe me, I remember it! Like I said, i'm not trying to argue that this season hasn't been an improvement in terms of not being in the relegation shake up or winning more points, I was just surprised at people saying they'd have bitten your hand off for being 10th now this time last year. It doesn't really tally up with what most people were saying last year, or what the pre-season polls said, or how people have reacted to games throughout this season, or anything really, so I find it a bit odd. I can't stress enough, i'm not saying 10th would be unacceptable, it's just that it's very much in the bracket I would have expected us to be in this season, and probably towards the lower end of the scale. If people within the club would have bitten your hand off for 10th somebody needs to tell them not to bother bringing in loan players on 300 grand a week because it's completely unnecessary.