Cycling thread

[Armel]

Do you expect Phil Gil to still be a force then Armel? Great rider but is 35 now so must be slowing up. So much of bike racing is strategy and experience, but at that level there is no hiding from the raw physicality required.

He's not what he used to be, that's for sure. He lost a lot of his pace and explosion. In very long races, or long attacks he can still do it. Wouldn't bet on him in the Tour though when there's an uphill finish and he has to take on Matthews, Sagan, Valverde et al... He still wants to win Roubaix, not sure if that will work out for him but we'll see I guess (he wants all monuments).

He was the best man in the BC though; he was relentless in the attack and had plenty of energy.

 

[Frang]

 

[dublinbluenose]

 

[Armel]

I think they'll be able to pull it off.

ASO will just have to proof that UCI isn't handling the matter in an adequate manner and that Sky is doing everything in their power to stall the procedure.

Regardless ASO is doing him a favour, if he does go I fully expect him to get knocked of his bike.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

I think they'll be able to pull it off.

ASO will just have to proof that UCI isn't handling the matter in an adequate manner and that Sky is doing everything in their power to stall the procedure.

Regardless ASO is doing him a favour, if he does go I fully expect him to get knocked of his bike.

Doubt it tbh. Froome is Le Patron, unusual to march into work on Monday morning expecting to fire the Boss. Epsecially when the Boss' 'crime' is a few enthusiastic toots on the blue inhaler. I mean no one takes that seriously as a performance-enhancing dodge in the context of pro-cycling.

Why would anyone want a second-rate Tour in any case? No one could take Froome in his prime, but he's entering the Autumn of his career now so the next tier needs to step up. An OG like Hinault can talk about knocking him off his bike, but French cycling fans aren't built that way these days.They're more like English football fans, philosophically accepting of their place in things.

 

[Armel]

Doubt it tbh. Froome is Le Patron, unusual to march into work on Monday morning expecting to fire the Boss. Epsecially when the Boss' 'crime' is a few enthusiastic toots on the blue inhaler. I mean no one takes that seriously as a performance-enhancing dodge in the context of pro-cycling.

Why would anyone want a second-rate Tour in any case? No one could take Froome in his prime, but he's entering the Autumn of his career now so the next tier needs to step up. An OG like Hinault can talk about knocking him off his bike, but French cycling fans aren't built that way these days.They're more like English football fans, philosophically accepting of their place in things.

I think they'll succeed tbh; if they manage to proof the above points. Appeal is with the French Olympic committee and there isn't time for the higher appeal. Lappartient has just given a reaction, and I think he'll be saying something similar later this week.

I think you seriously overestimate how many people like Froome mate. Quite certain that the majority would be happy not to see him. E.g: check the newspapers across Europe.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So we're blaming the victim if some idiot pushes him off the bike? I'll say it again, but had the authorities done their job then we wouldn't even know he was under investigation.

This is just playing to the gallery because the French are rubbish bike riders.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

View attachment 47393

Hinault thinks this is okay.

 

[dublinbluenose]

 

[Armel]

So we're blaming the victim if some idiot pushes him off the bike? I'll say it again, but had the authorities done their job then we wouldn't even know he was under investigation.

This is just playing to the gallery because the French are rubbish bike riders.

This is unfair and inaccurate tbh.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

This is unfair and inaccurate tbh.

Plenty of folk drawing parallels with ASO banning Boonen from the Tour in 2009 when he was bang on the bugle. What happened there? Exactly - you can't arbitrarily ban legends of the sport just because you don't like them.

 

[Armel]

No that's different. Boonen was caught using cocaine out of competition; was not prohibited by any law at the time (well except penal law in Belgium). They had no legs to stand on. They have with Froome.

It's relatively straightforward for Froome since ASO rules are clear now:

1) The board of an organisation like ASO has the obligation to act in the interest of the organisation and protect it's image, and has a duty of care towards it's contestants.

2) There's an explicit article in the ASO rules stating exactly this and the right to exclude contestants.

3) Off course the decision has to be reasonable and the decision to exclude Froome must be necessary/proportionate/suited.

4) The only thing that Froome might use as a defence is that the sport serves an interest wider than that of a sole organisation. It's not optimal when one organisation (Giro) lets him compete and the other one doesn't. Everything has to be as uniform as possible.

They have to weigh the different interests, and possibly there's also the equal treatment principle; you can't have different treatments for similar situations (but there aren't any completely similar cases that I'm aware off).

So they can exclude him. Don't think the French OC will disagree. If they prove the two points I've named in the previous post, then I am quite certain that there will be no Froome in TdF 2018.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

No that's different. Boonen was caught using cocaine out of competition; was not prohibited by any law at the time (well except penal law in Belgium). They had no legs to stand on. They have with Froome.

It's relatively straightforward for Froome since ASO rules are clear now:

1) The board of an organisation like ASO has the obligation to act in the interest of the organisation and protect it's image, and has a duty of care towards it's contestants.

2) There's an explicit article in the ASO rules stating exactly this and the right to exclude contestants.

3) Off course the decision has to be reasonable and the decision to exclude Froome must be necessary/proportionate/suited.

4) The only thing that Froome might use as a defence is that the sport serves an interest wider than that of a sole organisation. It's not optimal when one organisation (Giro) lets him compete and the other one doesn't. Everything has to be as uniform as possible.

They have to weigh the different interests, and possibly there's also the equal treatment principle; you can't have different treatments for similar situations (but there aren't any completely similar cases that I'm aware off).

So they can exclude him. Don't think the French OC will disagree. If they prove the two points I've named in the previous post, then I am quite certain that there will be no Froome in TdF 2018.

As it happens we have the perfect control experiment in this regard- the other riders in the pro-peleton who are riding under an AAF, or who have recently had one. We don't know who they are, because their status was not leaked to the whole world. Are you suggesting that they be exposed and binned out of the Tour as well? That sounds to me a very extreme position.

Froome's case is a right ballache for all concerned but it is the UCI causing all of the aggravation - leaking it in the first place [or was it a hack?, either way it's terrible] and then failing to resolve it for months and months.

 

[Armel]

As it happens we have the perfect control experiment in this regard- the other riders in the pro-peleton who are riding under an AAF, or who have recently had one. We don't know who they are, because their status was not leaked to the whole world. Are you suggesting that they be exposed and binned out of the Tour as well? That sounds to me a very extreme position.

Froome's case is a right ballache for all concerned but it is the UCI causing all of the aggravation - leaking it in the first place [or was it a hack?, either way it's terrible] and then failing to resolve it for months and months.

No they won't be looking at them; their presence doesn't damage the image of the TdF since they are unknown to the wider audience.

They'll look at the Di Luca's, the Fuentes cases and indeed Boonen who they once (tried to) ban(ned). They'll look at those cases and then they'll decide if the measure is in proportion to the perceived damage that the TdF will suffer with Froome being present. With Froome being present, the Tour won't be about the mountains, TT's ... ; it will be about Froome's (perceived) doping and the resulting legal consequences. Not about a race, just another vaudeville.

The failing to resolve is for a large part Froome and Sky's fault tbf, he's been stalling the whole thing for ages. He wants to take a part of his probably suspension during off-season; they are (rightly) gambling on the incompetent UCI doping committee. Also apparently they've already offered him a settlement, but he refused ...

If they simply prove UCI's incompetence and Sky stalling the whole thing, then they'll be okay.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

No they won't be looking at them; their presence doesn't damage the image of the TdF since they are unknown to the wider audience.

.

Sounds seriously discriminatory to me - plus a gilt-edged opportunity for Sky's lawyers to sue ASO back to the pre-Cambrian era. In the face of that threat, I'd expect ASO to fold.
V similar thing happened with the boxer Tyson Fury's failing a drugs test - except he actually was bang to rights over nandrolone. Incompetence at the testing authority led to the case being unresolved for so long that he threatened legal action of the heavyweight kind, and they folded and reached a biscuit-arsed agreement to back-date his ban to time-served.

Sky certainly are disputing things and playing their part in dragging it all out, but they have to in this circumstance. It's not like a failed drugs test that they're trying to lawyer to death in the hope of exposing some failure of protocol, it's an AAF of a non-PED, from a urine sample with limited frame of reference / precedent as to what is acceptable. On the most tested rider in the world (probably). No way anyone would take that on the chin and just nod it through.